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Restricted List

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Just now, LordBlunt said:

ABSOLUTELY! 

 

Honestly I think the reason it's not banned is it is way too valuable on the restrictive list. Having the best neutral card in the game on the Restricted List is any easy way to make sure it hits all decks.

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Let’s not be coy about the RL.., Crab will always take 3 copies of Charge! because it’s a no-brainer in their deck.... Iron Mine and PBlade is NOT that significant of a loss...  and Scorpion will happily remove Foged Edict over Fury 8 out of 7 days a week... again, a no-brainer here... 

Policy Debate will be elevated in everyone’s eyes, I fear. (this was and continues to be a broken card imo) 

But as I said earlier on, at least we are moving in the right direction. 

Edited by LordBlunt

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Man, this hits four cards I've used in my deck before.

I'm so happy they released a write-up as to why they were doing these things.  I'm not a fixture in the meta, so I was largely unaware of the combos that lie out there.  I agree with their reasoning and will continue to field my Dragon clan with a new direction.

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5 minutes ago, Duciris said:

Man, this hits four cards I've used in my deck before.

I'm so happy they released a write-up as to why they were doing these things.  I'm not a fixture in the meta, so I was largely unaware of the combos that lie out there.  I agree with their reasoning and will continue to field my Dragon clan with a new direction.

Same.

The FE + Fury combo they mention never even gets used around here. I was a little confused about a few of the choices, but they made more sense after reading the write-up and checking out people's comments. 

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Not sure restricting for greater glory was necesarry. I would have preffered and errata to Charge! to fix it. Something along the lines of "At the end of the conflict, remove from the play the character" That way it doesnt matter how many reprieves or fates you place on him, you wont be able to prevent him leaving. That would keep Charge! relevant without being op or anything like that...

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With regard to the other rules changes I take it that the Seeker role overrides the changed rule

 

"For each element, that player must choose one province
associated with that element, such that all five elements are
represented among their set of provinces"

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I think asking for an errata of cards is much more unreasonable than asking for a restricted list.  THey could maybe print a new version of Charge! named something else (Charge!!, Charge!?), but changing the wording of a card, besides to make it functional (See Pit Trap), is really really confusing to people.  

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7 minutes ago, Matrim said:

With regard to the other rules changes I take it that the Seeker role overrides the changed rule

 

"For each element, that player must choose one province
associated with that element, such that all five elements are
represented among their set of provinces"

I’m sorry, I’m confused. What does the Seeker role have to do with the RL list? 

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This is only going to hurt the game as far as number of players is concerned. There was no need for a restricted list, everything was balanced as far as there be an answer to every card from another card. It's no secret that Scorpion is the most powerful clan and Unicorn is the least powerful at the moment. All that needed to be done was give the weaker clans some stronger cards and give Scorpion some weaker cards in the upcoming expansions to balance things out. This restricted list does nothing to close the gap between the stronger and weaker clans. It pretty much just punished Dragon.

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34 minutes ago, IceQube MkII said:

The new line there is in blue along with the blue restricted language.

I think Seeker Role override rule changes so you don't need one of every element in your provinces.

Right.  The Golden Rule.  All rules stand as written.  Any card that contradicts the rules gains precedence over the rules.

Otherwise, the only benefit to the Seeker role is 3 fewer influence, and a one-in-five chance of getting a free fate during the province reveal.  Plus Seeker only cards, although that's less of a benefit over Keeper as the Keeper has the same benefit over Seeker.

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27 minutes ago, Duciris said:

Right.  The Golden Rule.  All rules stand as written.  Any card that contradicts the rules gains precedence over the rules.

Otherwise, the only benefit to the Seeker role is 3 fewer influence, and a one-in-five chance of getting a free fate during the province reveal.  Plus Seeker only cards, although that's less of a benefit over Keeper as the Keeper has the same benefit over Seeker.

Don't forget the dual-element provinces. Seeker of Fire and Seeker of Void, and possibly even Seeker of Air, are MUCH better than any Keeper role.

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3 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:

I really think they should have waited until after the next cycle had released. There are no cards on the list for Unicorn or Crane which is pretty lame. If you are going to restrict cards, do it for all clans.

I can't tell if this was supposed to be sarcasm or not.

Which cards from Crane and Unicorn do you think should be restricted? 

While I get that the problem may have sorted itself out with more cards in the mix, we have no way of knowing that now and there are several Kotei (a couple of them Grand Kotei) between now and then.   Unfortunately, the new cards will not all be out for most of these.  The Grand Kotei at Gen Con will only have access to 4 of the 6 packs from the next cycle.  Fixing, or at least attempting to fix, the environment now is important as it gives people enough time to adjust to the new metagame and be better prepare for this years WC.

I think this is the appropriate decision.  The restricted list is a living document, so it can always be changed after we actually have the new cards, instead of waiting to confirm what we already know about the metagame.   Maybe after this years WC we'll see some role selections and have enough new cards that FFG takes another look at the restricted list

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This ban list is very welcome, keep the metagame balanced is good for everyone. The ideal situation is a kotei where almost any clan have opportunities for winning. Which was not happening at all since Imperial cycle was completely released. Very welcome change!

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44 minutes ago, Grimardi said:

This ban list is very welcome, keep the metagame balanced is good for everyone. The ideal situation is a kotei where almost any clan have opportunities for winning. Which was not happening at all since Imperial cycle was completely released. Very welcome change!

Isn't a ban, just restricted.  I think the distinction is important.

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meh!!! meaningless, in a few months time more cards will be restricted because they interact too powerfully and thus starts the endless cycle of restrictions / errata/ and banning. Soon they will be spending more time trying to "fix" the game then producing new cards for it?. Gonna be hilarious to watch the scramble

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4 hours ago, badgerlord1969 said:

meh!!! meaningless, in a few months time more cards will be restricted because they interact too powerfully and thus starts the endless cycle of restrictions / errata/ and banning. Soon they will be spending more time trying to "fix" the game then producing new cards for it?. Gonna be hilarious to watch the scramble

It's not like FFG hasn't had restricted lists for other games before. And while you may not like the concept, they've generally managed it just fine.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with it; I'm okay with the RL concept, and I think some cards were simply too good. I'm fine with them fixing their mistakes now, rather than trying to patch it up (which, realistically, is often going to lead to power creep). 

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I am so on board with this, our locals almost exclusively were playing broken scorpion and crab nonsense that has been hit hard and fewer PD makes things a bit less oppressive in general.

 

Only concern is if this leaves Phoenix untouchable at the top of the pile now, if only they didn't have that OP holding

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I think I am OK with this.  I want the current advantaged clans to get good cards going forward.  With the current combos the new stuff would be massively useless to keep a balance.

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11 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

Crab will always take 3 copies of Charge! because it’s a no-brainer in their deck

Ahahaha. Wait, you're serious? Let me laugh ever harder. AHAHAHAHAHA!

Yes, because I'm totally going to give up Iron Mine for Charge. :rolleyes:

11 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

Scorpion will happily remove Foged Edict over Fury 8 out of 7 days a week

Good, Forged Edict is way more annoying than Mirumoto's Fury. That'd just mean people can more reliably use events against Scorpion.

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This is such a good thing for the game! The cards on that list, especially Policy Debate for me, were contributing to hugely npe games.

Further, the gap between the tier 1 clans and everyone else has been reduced.

This is a huge buff for Unicorn!

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3 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

Ahahaha. Wait, you're serious? Let me laugh ever harder. AHAHAHAHAHA!

Yes, because I'm totally going to give up Iron Mine for Charge. :rolleyes:

I can strongly attest to Charge being a staple in the majority of Crab decks that I have come across, and the top 3 decks in the EU tournament (apologies, I don’t remember the last location it was held at) all had 3 copies of Charge and only 1 had 2 Iron Mines. Judging by that account, yes, Charge is still a no-brainer over Iron Mine. (gotta get your 4-5 cost characters into the game for cheap prior to attaching Reprieve or Iron Mine(ing) them - which is why all Crab players whose posts I’ve read and players whom I’ve played against seem to prefer Charge) Your mileage may vary, certainly. 

If you give up Charge for Iron Mine, my overall point still stands; Crab and Scorpion are not that ‘hurt’ with the Restricted List as compared to how others might’ve. But the impact of the RL will not drastically affect the game but will hamper deck design for some. Not for Crab imo. 

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1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

I can strongly attest to Charge being a staple in the majority of Crab decks that I have come across, and the top 3 decks in the EU tournament (apologies, I don’t remember the last location it was held at) all had 3 copies of Charge and only 1 had 2 Iron Mines. Judging by that account, yes, Charge is still a no-brainer over Iron Mine. (gotta get your 4-5 cost characters into the game for cheap prior to attaching Reprieve or Iron Mine(ing) them - which is why all Crab players whose posts I’ve read and players whom I’ve played against seem to prefer Charge) Your mileage may vary, certainly. 

If you give up Charge for Iron Mine, my overall point still stands; Crab and Scorpion are not that ‘hurt’ with the Restricted List as compared to how others might’ve. But the impact of the RL will not drastically affect the game but will hamper deck design for some. Not for Crab imo. 

You underestimate the power of Iron Mines, Karada District, Satoshi and Rebuild. Losing Iron Mines hurts quite a lot, because even Charge becomes considerably weaker.

I actually think that Scorpion was hit the most. Forged Edict is one of the best cards in the game. Not being able to play MF forces Scorpion to be more proactive, which they would be able, if PFB wouldn't be also on this list. Being proactive without PFB really hampers your ability to deal with Lion and Dragon.

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