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Marinealver

2.0 Design Space Discussion: Blue Actions

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So after all the refinement from 1st ed. to 2nd ed. for X-wing one of the things was to incorporate actions in the activation phase and have actions gain stress intrinsically instead of through an upgrade like Push The Limit. This is a good move but one of the things it does is it makes Red Maneuvers very punishing. A red maneuver is in the difficulty curve the heaviest thing you can do.  Here is a quick list from lightest to heaviest maneuver-action combinations you can do in 2nd ed. Weight is determine whether you gain or lose stress and if you were able to take an action which can improve your position in the following phases of the round.

  1. Blue maneuver and white action (-1 stress)
  2. Blue or white maneuver and white action w/o stress (- 0 stress)
  3. White maneuver no/failed action (+0 stress)
  4. Blue or white maneuver Red Action or Linked Red Action (+1 Stress)
  5. Red Maneuver no action (+1 Stress)

So as you see heaviest is the Red Maneuver, so in theory crafting lets make a blue action, this will not be a linked action and it would be one of the weaker actions like calculate or evade or even a new action that gives you a weapons disabled token. This is how the scale will change. We must also assume that the only actions that can be taken while stressed are blue actions.

  1. Blue Maneuver and Blue Action (-2 Stress)
  2. White Maneuver with Blue Action or Blue Maneuver with White Action (-1 Stress)
  3. Blue or White Maneuver with Blue or White Action w/o stress (-0 stress)
  4. Red Maneuver with Blue Action (+0 Stress)
  5. Blue or White Maneuver with Red or Linked Action (+1 Stress)

So the stress does sink (which may be good in a stress heavy meta) but it also moves the weight from the dials onto the actions. So now Red Actions have to be taken into consideration. However there is the consideration that now it is a blue action there will be no reason to never do an action. So going back to the other form of control Ion, we can add to the blue action rule that blue actions cannot be taken while you have any ion (or even jam) tokens making a single token a determent to medium and large based ships with a blue action.

 

Well anyways that is just some 2.0 theory crafting, So if there were a blue action which action should it be or would you make a new one (such as give a weapon disabled token). Most importantly which ship should get it?

Edited by Marinealver

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How would you perform a blue action when you’re stressed, and being stressed prevents you from taking actions? 

Or are you saying that blue actions would be an exception to this, meaning stress prevents you from taking non-blue actions?

I don’t know, that seems pretty powerful, and sort of undermines the whole point of stress. I can’t think of any action that is watered down enough to make it a good idea.

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Just now, Herowannabe said:

How would you perform a blue action when you’re stressed, and being stressed prevents you from taking actions? 

Or are you saying that blue actions would be an exception to this, meaning stress prevents you from taking non-blue actions?

I don’t know, that seems pretty powerful, and sort of undermines the whole point of stress. I can’t think of any action that is watered down enough to make it a good idea.

Perhaps calculate, but I suspect FFG intends to add droid-specific stuff that improves calculate.

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Just now, Herowannabe said:

How would you perform a blue action when you’re stressed, and being stressed prevents you from taking actions? 

Or are you saying that blue actions would be an exception to this, meaning stress prevents you from taking non-blue actions?

I don’t know, that seems pretty powerful, and sort of undermines the whole point of stress. I can’t think of any action that is watered down enough to make it a good idea.

 

10 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So after all the refinement from 1st ed. to 2nd ed. for X-wing one of the things was to incorporate actions in the activation phase and have actions gain stress intrinsically instead of through an upgrade like Push The Limit. This is a good move but one of the things it does is it makes Red Maneuvers very punishing. A red maneuver is in the difficulty curve the heaviest thing you can do.  Here is a quick list from lightest to heaviest maneuver-action combinations you can do in 2nd ed. Weight is determine whether you gain or lose stress and if you were able to take an action which can improve your position in the following phases of the round.

  1. Blue maneuver and white action (-1 stress)
  2. Blue or white maneuver and white action w/o stress (- 0 stress)
  3. White maneuver no/failed action (+0 stress)
  4. Blue or white maneuver Red Action or Linked Red Action (+1 Stress)
  5. Red Maneuver no action (+1 Stress)

So as you see heaviest is the Red Maneuver, so in theory crafting lets make a blue action, this will not be a linked action and it would be one of the weaker actions like calculate or evade or even a new action that gives you a weapons disabled token. This is how the scale will change. We must also assume that the only actions that can be taken while stressed are blue actions.

  1. Blue Maneuver and Blue Action (-2 Stress)
  2. White Maneuver with Blue Action or Blue Maneuver with White Action (-1 Stress)
  3. Blue or White Maneuver with Blue or White Action w/o stress (-0 stress)
  4. Red Maneuver with Blue Action (+0 Stress)
  5. Blue or White Maneuver with Red or Linked Action (+1 Stress)

So the stress does sink (which may be good in a stress heavy meta) but it also moves the weight from the dials onto the actions. So now Red Actions have to be taken into consideration.

 

Well anyways that is just some 2.0 theory crafting, So if there were a blue action which action should it be or would you make a new one (such as give a weapon disabled token). Most importantly which ship should get it?

 

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4 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

How would you perform a blue action when you’re stressed, and being stressed prevents you from taking actions? 

Or are you saying that blue actions would be an exception to this, meaning stress prevents you from taking non-blue actions?

I don’t know, that seems pretty powerful, and sort of undermines the whole point of stress. I can’t think of any action that is watered down enough to make it a good idea.

Blue Calculate action in the Sepratist faction.

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9 minutes ago, Good991 said:

probably blue actions could be performed while stressed but not have other benefits.

good point but you could have some confusion as to why blue maneuvers remove stress and blue actions don't

Another thing I think I could add is that ion/jam tokens can prevent blue actions. So if a medium or large base ship has an ion token but not enough to go 1 blue straight they can't perform blue actions. Which would go thematically well with this suggestion.

14 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Blue Calculate action in the Sepratist faction.

I like. Okay I am going to edit the OP to include ion tokens blocking blue actions.

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20 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Perhaps droid pilots won't have EPTs, but something droid specific.

 

17 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Elite Programming?

Perhaps that should be something for another 2.0 design thread.

So back on topic what about Blue Actions?

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It's an interesting space, that, but I'm not sure I'd want them at this point. The addition of force and calculate feels a little bit like clutter to me, in a game that is supposed to be simplified...

But. I like the flavour of force and calculate. I like this blue action idea. I think it might have been pretty neat if they had used blue actions to represent kooky powers and shiny, metal behinds.

Instead of cluttering us up with all these newfangled ideas and weird token mechanics.

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Wait, do we know what Calculate does? I had presumed it was a 1:1 with Focus tokens, beyond not being a focus token, ie, not able to be spent for focus-token effects.

Which I guess is 'weaker', but only in special effects instead of normal utility. Am I wrong in this understanding?

My IG-88s wanna know :p

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8 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

It's an interesting space, that, but I'm not sure I'd want them at this point. The addition of force and calculate feels a little bit like clutter to me, in a game that is supposed to be simplified...

But. I like the flavour of force and calculate. I like this blue action idea. I think it might have been pretty neat if they had used blue actions to represent kooky powers and shiny, metal behinds.

Instead of cluttering us up with all these newfangled ideas and weird token mechanics.

Well right now they are trying to make 2 firepower ships valid for some time. With Calculate only being able to convert a single focus, having more attacks is better than more firepower. Where for 3 or 4 firepower ships you will want focus instead. Heck even 1 firepower ships can be valid being able to circumvent reinforce which is now a more common action.

5 hours ago, Dosiere said:

Calculate works just like focus, but can o lay convert a single result.

Is it focus to hit or focus to crit like the 1st edition upgrade?

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

No. A Calculate token isn't Calculation - I believe it's a 'mini-focus' that changes just one result (much like Force tokens).

But they will probably have the EPT Calculation, which requires a calculate action.

It will change it, so instead of a hit, it turns it into a crit, just like it was, but now its Droid only.

 

You heard it here first

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On 5/20/2018 at 10:43 PM, Marinealver said:

good point but you could have some confusion as to why blue maneuvers remove stress and blue actions don't

Another thing I think I could add is that ion/jam tokens can prevent blue actions. So if a medium or large base ship has an ion token but not enough to go 1 blue straight they can't perform blue actions. Which would go thematically well with this suggestion.

I like. Okay I am going to edit the OP to include ion tokens blocking blue actions.

You can do white maneuvers while stressed but not white actions. Confusing already.

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I really hope that they don't explore this design space.

If they do explore this design space, I hope it's especially limited. Maybe only on ships that have very few red maneuvers. And hopefully no repositioning actions.

All in all, I'd prefer it only be a pilot ability rather than an actual blue action on the card.

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I think we'll mostly see upgrades that turn red actions white or add linked actions to existing actions.  Like add a white TL to a focus.  Removing stress seems best left to pilot abilities and maneuvering so that stress actually feels... stressful.

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47 minutes ago, Jetfire said:

  Removing stress seems best left to pilot abilities and maneuvering so that stress actually feels... stressful.

Absolutely. Adding blue actions feels like going against the idea that smart maneuvering is more important in 2.0.

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9 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

Absolutely. Adding blue actions feels like going against the idea that smart maneuvering is more important in 2.0.

Blue actions could be just actions that you can perform while stressed. 

Tech upgrades might do that btw. 

 

I say hold your horses. We will see sth like that soon enough.

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2 hours ago, Ixidor said:

I really hope that they don't explore this design space.

If they do explore this design space, I hope it's especially limited. Maybe only on ships that have very few red maneuvers. And hopefully no repositioning actions.

All in all, I'd prefer it only be a pilot ability rather than an actual blue action on the card.

Well I understand the concern and yes it should be limited. One thing to bring it up is what would keep you from doing a Blue Action (other than doing a different one) and the idea came to mind is to have Ion Damage block Blue Actions. Now put in the CIS faction and make Vulture Droids with a Blue Calculate and you got something thematic and balance because there is counter-play available.

2 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Vulture droid

Blue calculate

White Lock>White Calculate

White roll>White calculate

White evade>White calculate

Link Actions should be Red at the end unless there is a very specific and agile ship. But as you know agile is contained in fragile.

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If stressed ships can take a special action that eliminates stress, and that's the only action that they can take, unless the action was super detrimental ("Push 1 Crew Member Out The Airlock") then it wouldn't be a choice, you would just ALWAYS do that and never have to worry about gaining stress, because you'll just remove it anyway.

Be just as well to have an ability that automatically removes one stress token at the end of the round.

Or am I missing something obvious...?

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Ion locking you into blue maneuver and locking you out of blue action allowing.... blah blah blah.

 

 Having a change that requires altering shown cards to make them do opposite effects on maneuvers and actions with the same token? More complexity doesn't necessarily equal more fun. See harpoons.

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