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Swedge

Stratification!!

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I was surprised by that too. They’ve said that it’s to make formation flying easier and because the mid range PS scores were never really used, you either went low PS swarm blocker or super high PS shoot first. 

My view was that the PS was how the game was structured to keep things organized and made it not just a regular IGoUGo turn sequence. If you’re compacting the scale so there are lots more identical initiative values it kinda defeats the purpose of the mechanic, who is first player becomes A LOT more important, and the game looses some of what made it distinct. 

But none of us have actually played it yet, so who knows. Maybe it works great. 

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Just now, Swedge said:

So why did FFG compact the Pilot skills? it seems to be from 6 to 0 now? Wouldn't it have made more sense to do just the opposite.. To coin an AF phrase better stratification!!   

PS value was very hard to judge. On lower PS, 1-2 points didn't matter too much, this is why generics without EPTs weren't used. 

On higher PS, 1-2 point literally meant the difference between playable and garbage. Imagine Echo on a native PS 8 or 9

The granularity way greater than the game was using. PS in itself, is a very binary stat. You either have a higher PS, or you don't, it doesn't matter what is the exact number. 

So pretty much that. The designers didn't want the difference between the old PS 2 and 3 ships to be there, and removed the arbitrary numbers that were causing the problem. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

I was surprised by that too. They’ve said that it’s to make formation flying easier and because the mid range PS scores were never really used, you either went low PS swarm blocker or super high PS shoot first. 

My view was that the PS was how the game was structured to keep things organized and made it not just a regular IGoUGo turn sequence. If you’re compacting the scale so there are lots more identical initiative values it kinda defeats the purpose of the mechanic, who is first player becomes A LOT more important, and the game looses some of what made it distinct. 

But none of us have actually played it yet, so who knows. Maybe it works great. 

Well the problem with the original system was exactly as you described it, and I understand your point of this not being a you go, then I go type of game, but even with ps1-12, People polarized to highest of lowest anyway, making all the i betweens pointless

but there was another problem, low ps genetics varied a lot which didn’t work so great, if you wanted to fly an all low ps squad, it’s was harder when you have some 2s, 1s, and 3s 

also there are tons of advantages if you could match ps with your other ships, changing movement order which is huge! 

Overal I don’t then the change makes playing the game very different at all, it just simplified an unnecessarily complicated system

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They had a chance to change the "all or nothing" feel to initiative, but flopped on that also.  With the compacted PS, it means there will be plenty of games where basically one player will do everything, then the other will react with whatever is left of their ships.  Changing tied PS to an alternating activation would have added a tactical layer to the game that wasn't present before (ship activation selection on tied PS).

 

Plus side, I guess the "activate when dead on your PS" rule will see a lot more play. *finger twirl*

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For me, I always made an effort to have at least most, if not all, of my list having the same PS.  For example, my triple Defender list with Ryad and two Glaives required the use of VI and Adaptability, but having all 3 being the same PS gave me a lot of flexibility.  Now, I can do Ryad and two Onyx with just their base Init value.

And, as @Steamdragon just pointed out, more chances of dying shots.

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Old system PS 7, and 8 basically had adaptability or VI stapled on them to be 9 anyways and half the 9's had them on just to be over the other 9's

With VI and adaptability gone we end up with more variability in ps then we did under the old system with VI and adaptability just crushing everyone together at the top. 

Under the old system, ps 3-6 did not matter at all as you had to plan to be either out psed or under psed no one ever cared if they took a ps6 over a ps5 it was a meaningless decision. So lumping all those mid ones together makes way more sense.

Edited by Icelom

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1 hour ago, Icelom said:

Old system PS 7, and 8 basically had adaptability or VI stapled on them to be 9 anyways and half the 9's had them on just to be over the other 9's

With VI and adaptability gone we end up with more variability in ps then we did under the old system with VI and adaptability just crushing everyone together at the top. 

Under the old system, ps 3-6 did not matter at all as you had to plan to be either out psed or under psed no one ever cared if they took a ps6 over a ps5 it was a meaningless decision. So lumping all those mid ones together makes way more sense.

Which was worsened by FFG's tendency to pack all the amazing pilot feats onto the pilot cards of the highest PS pilots. Instead of having really good stuff/abilties at PS 4-6, and the PS 8-9 mostly being just 8-9.

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9 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Which was worsened by FFG's tendency to pack all the amazing pilot feats onto the pilot cards of the highest PS pilots. Instead of having really good stuff/abilties at PS 4-6, and the PS 8-9 mostly being just 8-9.

I think this time it might get solved... With the high price premium, i think it might be impossible to run IN6 Aces efficiently together. 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I think this time it might get solved... With the high price premium, i think it might be impossible to run IN6 Aces efficiently together. 

 

 

PS6, not IN6.

 

And no, the points won't balance it.  It would practically be the first game in table top history for that to happen.

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13 minutes ago, streamdragon said:

PS6, not IN6.

 

And no, the points won't balance it.  It would practically be the first game in table top history for that to happen.

Its not called PS anymore. 


Alternating activation does not solve your problem, just moves it. 

It will cause the game to devolve into activation spam, where you activate with as many crappy units as possible, and then move your most powerful units after your opponent. 

 

Because maneuvering is important, and there are fairly obvious decisions about positioning, you the time of your activation is very important. No matter what way are you going to change the rules, there will be exploits. 

But the bigger problem, is that it is not faithful to the world... In SW, there are larger than life characters, heroes if you will, that are better than anyone else. 

It would feel wrong if by the flip of the coin, Vader could be outmaneuvered by some schmuck in an X-Wing. 

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Pilot Initiatives are a problematic game design. it’s a blind bid where it is very easy to “overbid” and get nothing in return.  Initiatives  4-7 were often an over bid that did not payoff.

Compressing the available bids shrinks the amount pilots can over bid.

the problem still exists but is more manageable.

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I would have compressed it even more with 5 as the highest tbh.  1 = base generics, 2 = mid tier generics, 3 = low skill uniques and notable high skill generics like Royal Guards, 4 = upper tier uniques, 5 = Wedge/Vader/etc.   1-6 is probably fine though, if anything they may have went with 6 just so they could keep the old PS1 and 2 dynamic for generic pilots without having it necessarily affect the rest of the skill tiers

The fewer tiers of PS you have, the better an idea you have for what you are actually buying with your pilot skill investment.

Edited by Effenhoog

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17 hours ago, That One Guy said:

Having the large PS gaps no longer made sense. You were paying for PS you weren't using. 

So they shouldn’t have been charging for every increment. If you only paid points for “low init”, “med init”, and “high init”, but within those invisible categories were graduations that were free point wise but still allowed the game to be structured you could avoid that problem and still not reduce the game to an IGoUGo turn structure. 

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