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Dengar5

Scum got nerfed hard

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StarVipers thankfully keep their 1 bank barrel rolls & gain blue 2 banks... but there are many many downers for Scum today.

  • Jumpmaster major nerf, single arc turret, NO WHITE RIGHT TURNS, best actions are red, Shadow Caster title only adds die in primary arc & removes crew slot, the only worse dial is lambda
  • ShadowCaster major nerf, 2-attack mobile arc & the only flip maneuver is still 5 k-turn
  • These ships are now effectively front arc only ships!
  1. G1-A dial gets even worse!, in addition to medium base disadvantage
  2. Scurrg dial is nerfed, in addition to medium base disadvantage, + red barrel roll, doesn't have reload action like ALL the other bombers
  3. Kimogila medium base disadvantage, + red barrel roll
  4. M3-A Interceptor nerf, losing the blue 2-banks to gain 5 straight is a bad trade, ion cannon is nerfed, no light scyk option
  5. TalonBane Cobra nerf, I5 instead of expected I6, no linked actions
  6. Guri is nerfed because calculate < focus, but will be MORE expensive because I5
  7. Dace Bonearm pilot ability doesn't do damage & only affects medium & large ships
  8. Asajj pilot ability nerfed
  9. Jabba the Hutt crew is still terrible & Dengar crew is terrible
  10. No good crew, therefore Bossk is terrible ?
  11. Scum has no support options which Rebels & now Imperials get tons of

Why do Rebels get TWO 4-attack turret ships? Why does the defender get another shield? It is now way better than IG-88. The U-wing is better than most Scum medium base ships. X-wing > Kihraxz. Dash doesn't have a donut hole anymore. At least Miranda is nerfed into obscurity. Don't worry regen fanatics, Norra Wexley with R2-D2 will take over that position.

 

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You must have been one of those triple contracted scout spammers
People have pointed out to you that literally everything scum has been BUFFED with the jm5k being "normalized" but still very potent indeed.

More than HALF of the upgrades were not spoiled so you can shut your "no good crew" comment up right there.

Dash DOES have a freakin' donut hole, but its just no longer a flatout "no attack for j00" anymore (its a 2die attack). YT2400 was ALWAYS a 4die ship anyway, now it just has it built in (and no cannon since thats the thing's gimick to begin with)

Eval is LOL strong if you actually play the freakin' game that is X-Wing, a game of maneuvering tactics.

Oh and one more thing.... say it with me now...

WE DONT KNOW A **** THING ABOUT COSTS!

edit: Oh and btw they mentioned you will be able to run 3 brobots early on. Meaning they are more than likely the same price as Defenders or sliiiightly more (for the record 5/3 > 3/4). And its dial is nothing to scoff at.

Edited by Vineheart01

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The costing upon release is going to be atrocious. Many of these nerfs for scum will NOT be solved with point reductions. The jumpmaster & Shadow Caster are essentially brand new ships. I doubt that glitterstim has the same effect. Latts Razzi crew will definitely be changed.

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Oh and let me bring to light the biggest thing Scum did NOT get nerfed with:

THEY DIDNT LOSE ANY FREAKING SHIPS!

Both rebels and empire lost a LOT of ships because of the stupid faction split and Scum took our split-faction ships. I'm actually pissed i cant fly imp firespray now that it finally got buffed.

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1 minute ago, That One Guy said:

It seems silly to complain about a lack of support for a faction full of individuals all out for themselves...

Imperials complained alot, and now they have co-ordinate options up to wazoo

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22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

StarVipers thankfully keep their 1 bank barrel rolls & gain blue 2 banks... but there are many many downers for Scum today.

  • Jumpmaster major nerf, single arc turret, NO WHITE RIGHT TURNS, best actions are red, Shadow Caster title only adds die in primary arc & removes crew slot, the only worse dial is lambda
  • ShadowCaster major nerf, 2-attack mobile arc & the only flip maneuver is still 5 k-turn
  • These ships are now effectively front arc only ships!

2 dice should actually be able to do damage in 2e  it’s a nerf, but doesn’t render them useless  dengar will be pretty much front arc only due to the title change plus his ability, but other jumpmasters might be fine with the 2 dice.  If you were running without the title before, your attacks aren’t any weaker  

 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

 

  1. G1-A dial gets even worse!, in addition to medium base disadvantage

Did it get worse?  I know they added stop but didn’t pay attention to the rest. 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:
  1. M3-A Interceptor nerf, losing the blue 2-banks to gain 5 straight is a bad trade, ion cannon is nerfed, no light scyk option

I’m all for the 5s at the cost of 2 banks personally. Not having 1s OR 5s was painful. 

We’ll see about the loss of light scyk. I pretty much only played linked battery Sunny since LB came out. Doubt linked battery returns, and we don’t know about sunny yet. 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:
  1. TalonBane Cobra nerf, I5 instead of expected I6, no linked actions

TBC got a nerf with initiative but his ability was buffed (works against all attacks now), gained a hull and native barrel roll. 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:
  1. Guri is nerfed because calculate < focus, but will be MORE expensive because i5

I5 is a huge buff for her. 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:
  1. Dace Bonearm pilot ability doesn't do damage & only affects medium & large ships

I’d be more worried if he’d actually been good before. And the hwk got MASSIVELY buffed. And being able to ion a large ship instantly from one shot can be VERY good. Means they have to be super careful eith their positioning. 

22 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:
  1. Asajj pilot ability nerfed

Marginally.  Personally, if I’m going to shoot them (and/or they’re going to shoot me), killing anfocus or evade token is probably actually a buff over giving them a stress.  AND she can ignore it and use force tokens for the default affect, which id also call a buff. 

 

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Christ, the whinging is strong and disingenuous

 

first of all, g1-a got buffed with an extra health + jam. mist hunter also isn't shackled to tractor beam, you don't even HAVE to buy another cannon

SCURRG got very slightly nerfed, whoopdie. Have you seen miranda? So many things that were strong in 1.0 have been hardcore nerfed.

Kimoglia has been barely touched, and greater range of medium or larger base targets make its ability far superior

Cobra is buffed. Not only does he not need range bonus for his defensive ability, but the khirax got free barrelroll AND health.

Guri is higher initiative due to calculate. She will most likely be priced accordingly. Viper in general got buffed with additional blue banks

Dace bonearm never got used. Now the HWK is super buffed and he might see play

Asajj got nerfed, is still great as you can use force for other things (especially as soft focus). She was too strong for 2.0

Dengar crew is a buffed r5-p8, you cannot make any assumptions about Jabba as you have no idea what illicits are like

Bossk crew is great, Zuckuss crew is more than fine for 2.0. No word on maul, need to see what options he opens up with Dark Force upgrades

Concordia Face-off is buffed, no longer needs to have arc on the enemy

YV got buffed with reinforce

Quadjumper tug got buffed; apparently the player who gives out tokens decides how ships move so they actually got SUPER buffed as you can toss your own ships around

IG's double calculate is > 1 focus, so they all got buffed

The Firespray is a goddamn monster now

 

 

as for rebels, the yt-2400 is not a proper 4 die primary (doesn't get five dice at range 1) and the ghost is not and never has been a 4-die turret (it gets a secondary weapon turret). Further more, the ghost//phantom mechanic got absolutely ruined and defaced far past the point of recognizability. It is not even a...ghost of its former self!

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 minute ago, Dengar5 said:

The costing upon release is going to be atrocious. Many of these nerfs for scum will NOT be solved with point reductions. The jumpmaster & Shadow Caster are essentially brand new ships. I doubt that glitterstim has the same effect. Latts Razzi crew will definitely be changed.

Not resolved with point reductions? Wtf?? You know they could, uh, make them as cheap as they want right? Soooo if it’s really really awful, make it, I don’t know, really really cheap??

 

And you’re right, they’re different... LIKE OVER 50% OF THE STUFF IN THE GAME IS. I’m not sure what your point is.

 

These forums have become even more difficult than usual to read with so many conclusions being drawn based on not even CLOSE to complete information. Not only do we not know costs, we don’t even know what upgrades these ships all have!!! FFG could have given us the first 3 letters of a pilot name as the only preview for 2.0 and there would still be a thread about how they screwed things up. Goodness.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, madquest8 said:

 

The unboxing served only one purpose. It's 1.0 for life now. EVERYTHING has been nerfed to OBLIVION. So utterly disappointing, every ship you loved is destroyed. All the fun extracted from the game AND they want you to pay for the privilege of playing with wrecked ships. I feel sorry for anyone who buys into 2.0

My HWKs would like a word with you, dear sir. 

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11 minutes ago, madquest8 said:

 

The unboxing served only one purpose. It's 1.0 for life now. EVERYTHING has been nerfed to OBLIVION. So utterly disappointing, every ship you loved is destroyed. All the fun extracted from the game AND they want you to pay for the privilege of playing with wrecked ships. I feel sorry for anyone who buys into 2.0

I love the hwk. It was massively buffed. I love the starvipers. It was buffed. I love the defender. It was buffed. 

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Yeah, everything has been nerfed to oblivion... 

everything that was so brokenly overpowered the game was stale and boring that is.

Legitimately the only people i see complaining about 2.0 are the people that abused the powercreep. Without knowing costs, everything feels really normalized now.

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How is the medium base a disadvantage?  It makes the firespray more nimble, the G1A more in-your-face, and the Kimogila fits the midsize bomber role that the punisher and K fill for our friends.  

Y'all keep missing the forest for the trees.

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Jumpmaster also loses the ridiculous white sloop + red sloop for a red sloop in one direction only. I think that triple torp scouts and quad naked scouts might be good if they still costed 25 = 50, since they are good because they are beefy, not because they are mobile or use primaries (quad scouts you plan ahead, no that big of a deal). Dengar would play more like Rey now, with hopefully reduced cost but unlikely.

Shadowcaster: Asajj has the force. Asajj now has far more survibability (if latts stays the same, I don't think glitter and cm would stay), but that 2 mobile arc means it would only be decent at r1. So Asajj, instead of playing to keep stuff at R1-R2, you now have to play to keep at R1. I agree the other pilots suck because no force.

G1-A: 4-Lom is a bit better, the others worse.

Scurrg: It is ok it gets a bit of a nerf since it is nearly as powerful as the toilet, to avoid 3-4 scurrgs running rampant. Unknown if Nym and Sol are good, but unlikely. They were only good with bomblet or clusters. Clusters as action bombs are gone, and bomblet is only decent on Miranda, where it is infinite. Here Miranda really overshadows Nym and Sol.

Kimo: It was sluggish and increasing its size makes it worse. Agreed.

M3-A: Hard including heavy most likely means increased cost, but hopefully a swarm is still cost viable. Otherwise a couple of named pilots are good if they keep their abilities.

Talonbane: Tiny bit of text buff, -1 initiative is bad, but chassis is a lot better. Hopefully ship cost is lowered to keep in line with the old vaksai treatment. I might give a nod to named pilots again.

Guri: I disagree completely. It is a Soontir Fel that is easier to activate with -1 initiative and curved barrel rolls, but no double repositioning. It is a mini-Soontir.

Dace: I don't care. Palob is still king. Notice a trend?

Jabba crew: It is a bit worse, but can now 'overcharge' a single upgrade many times. Again cross my fingers it costs less.

Dengar: It is not bad, just different. Obviously old version would be broken in 2.0, but that doesn't mean this card is bad. I would also love to have Boba Fett old crew text, but now we got another card. Not bad, just not that glaringly overpowered, and just different so just treat it as a new card. A minute of silence for the old versions.

Bossk still has Zuckuss and Jabba. lol. But again, a named pilot to save the day: Moralo Eval is ridiculously good. You essentially have 2 teleports on a ship that badly needs repositioning. Go to a corner and you can go literally anywhere on half the map on a more advantageous facing. If you got caught from behind, you can reinforce. Yet another trend.

Support: Scum is supposed to have no support, same as Imperials, Resistance, First Order. Rebels are supposed because of faction identity. Palp and Manaroo may be a few outliers, but that is the main focus of each faction. I think that focusing Rebels on support is an incredibly bad idea, since rebels are so overpowered in 1.0 exactly because they are full of good supports.

YT-2400 is nuts. Defender is strapped on a mandatory shield upgrade, with accordingly increased costs, and a nerfed Ryad. IG's are still strong. U-wing is still kinda bad, but I really like that you can now use the bad configuration side only when you need it and can also turn 90 degrees without having to pay for an imperial crew. X-wing is better than kihraxz, but I really hope that X-wings get a bit of a cost increase and Kihraxz a bit of a decrease. Dash is the new Lothal, agreed. It will be really the dividing line between low and high ps. You either arc dodge it or evaporate. Miranda is not bad, will still do Miranda things, like constant shield regeneration and infinite bomblets. With high ps, it is easy to arc dodge or regen or reload the bomblet.

OP Stuff: Guri, IG's, jumps (if you can get 3 loaded or 4 naked in a squad), Soontir, Grand Inquisitor, Generic Inquisitors, Palp, most Rebel and Resistance aces, like Dash, Poe (nearly 100% it will be bonkers).

Good Stuff: Most rebel and resistance generics, Asajj, Vader (3 force and the best force spending mechanic is good in a vacuum, but the ship is still a POS for attack and bad actions for the high cost (at least the high cost assigned to Vader). Excited that design space means Vader could exist in other ships. Not excited for Valen Rudor that hogs every ship, lol. Now if there was a Vader in a Defender...).

Bad Stuff: Most scum and imperial generics

Now, for the conclusion it is very apparent trend: Scum and Imperials have good named pilots and lack good generics. There are a few fringe cases like generic toilet, defender and prototype. In contrast, Rebels have also solid aces but also many solid generics, like generic falcon, x-wing, and so on. I mostly disagree on your specific mentions, but I agree Scum (and Imperials) share that bit of a problem: They have a few "carries" or very strong stuff, that will overshadow and reduce diversity in those factions. Also, their faction identity is not as good long term as Rebels or Resistance (those 4 confirmed: Scum are antisupport, Imperials overspecialize and are still bad for generics, Rebels now must have supports as an identity which means that synergies will again have to be constantly kept in check, and Resistance are a "Dream Team of super stars" while the dev team just chuckles.). It is unknown how First Order will play out, but it will still mean Scum + Imperials get tied for last place for power or fun in the long term, being given only very singular good tools, which means less options when building a squad.

 

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7 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I love the hwk. It was massively buffed. I love the starvipers. It was buffed. I love the defender. It was buffed. 

The changes to the hwk appear okay, but the pilot abilities requiring arc is a major hit.

The defender retained X7 in this vastly lower attack power game. They are by far the most defensive ship in 2.0. Even if they're so expensive that you can only field 2 with limited upgrades, they will wreck most 2.0 ships. People keep saying 2 attack will be enough now. Not if half the meta is defenders and Norra Wexley with R2D2.

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they showed off, what, three crew and zero illicits?

Scum has always been about the shenanigans you can pull with crew, mech, and illicit combos. Show me 1.0 Assaj without Latts and Glitterstim and I'm bored. Show me a 1.0 Jumpmaster without Deadeye/R4/K4/Guidance Chips/Zuckuss/etc and I don't care. We have way too little data to make any assessments yet.

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2 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

The changes to the hwk appear okay, but the pilot abilities requiring arc is a major hit.

The defender retained X7 in this vastly lower attack power game. They are by far the most defensive ship in 2.0. Even if they're so expensive that you can only field 2 with limited upgrades, they will wreck most 2.0 ships. People keep saying 2 attack will be enough now. Not if half the meta is defenders and Norra Wexley with R2D2.

Evade tokens were nerfed, R2D2 was nerfed hard, and the defender doesn't even get its nerfed evade unless it completely finishes the maneuver; just bump or stress them and they're sitting ducks.

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