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tsondaboy

Did I miss something or Phantoms got nerfed to inexistence in 2.0?

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7 hours ago, beardxofxdeath said:

And still no other ship lost red dice beside the phantom (ok the lancer too in the moveable arc). Seems the want to make it less elite and hightech, which is exactly the opposite I imagine it. Thats probably the hardest pill to swallow! :D

 

Ghost also lost 1-2 dice in its rear arc. AND the extra turret shot for a much more situation shot from the rear arc (with said reduced dice)

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5 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

So given what we know, if Targeting Computer returns will it be worth putting on the phantom to equip FCS?

It probably will be worth it. Cloaking + plus good flying give the new phantom enough defense. Their lack of target lock is a big draw back, so offensive upgrades will be valuable.

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On 5/18/2018 at 7:30 PM, ficklegreendice said:

since I'm assuming you only glanced at the 4 --> 3 die primary, then yes you obviously missed something

m3UIgur.png

Stygium Array is the bees' goddamn knees

look at this ****!

you can cloak turn 1, then derp around barrel-rolling before engagement and still recloak

what if you k-turn? got an evade? still RECLOAK because it's not an action (just dont get the free evade next turn, so take it as an action)

what if you get shot before you can shoot? Well, now you can benefit defensively from your free evade instead of getting jack **** from ACD

 

FFG didn't nerf the phantom, they buffed the **** out of it. FFG FINALLY REMOVED ITS CRIPPLING PS DEPENDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!

now you can put REAL EPTS on them instead of stapling +2 PS!!!

 

sure, if it costs the same as it used to I'll throw a fit, but this thing is incredible at the right price (even 2/3 points less)

since it's got a 1.0 X-wing stats, I'd expect them to cost roughly as much and to make back their lack of efficiency with how ******* awesome Stygium Array cloaking is

...

The major problem with cloaking in its mechanics (even in prenerf) is it requires the user to constantly cloak and deacloak like every other turn or every turn.  I think this can be mitigated with a 1.0 suggestion that can be added in 2.0 vai System phase is to have all ships wit ha cloak token be able to do a reposistioning maneuver without decloaking. Weapons will still be disabled but it does give cloaked ships that extra unpredictability that made Wave 4 and 5 TIE Phantoms fun.

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2 hours ago, Odanan said:

And maybe... wait for it... maybe the Phantom will get the cannon slot? 

(the freaking ship has a lot of guns, you know)

If they get a cannon slot and their cost has droped they are going to be one of the most versatile ship the empire has. Here is for hoping. 

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1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

The major problem with cloaking in its mechanics (even in prenerf) is it requires the user to constantly cloak and deacloak like every other turn or every turn.  I think this can be mitigated with a 1.0 suggestion that can be added in 2.0 vai System phase is to have all ships wit ha cloak token be able to do a reposistioning maneuver without decloaking. Weapons will still be disabled but it does give cloaked ships that extra unpredictability that made Wave 4 and 5 TIE Phantoms fun.

If you don't decloak, you'll still get an evade whenever you do decide to decloak. You don't need to do it every turn 

And then you can keep closking or decloaking at leasiure

You can even get the free evade and then cloak as action to "tank" with four blanks and an evade

Then next turn decloak --> recloak as you wish 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

If you don't decloak, you'll still get an evade whenever you do decide to decloak. You don't need to do it every turn 

And then you can keep closking or decloaking at leasiure

You can even get the free evade and then cloak as action to "tank" with four blanks and an evade

Then next turn decloak --> recloak as you wish 

but if you don't decloak, you don't get anything. So again to maximize the value of the cloak you have to constantly flip the switch on and off. It isn't like you can stay cloak and lie in wait or stay hidden from saturation fire.

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Just now, Marinealver said:

but if you don't decloak, you don't get anything. So again to maximize the value of the cloak you have to constantly flip the switch on and off. It isn't like you can stay cloak and lie in wait or stay hidden from saturation fire.

You still get two more blank dice, which I believe are statiscally better with focus

 

Unless you're me ofc

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35 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You still get two more blank dice, which I believe are statiscally better with focus

 

Unless you're me ofc

Precisely, the extra green dice does not do the same as the extra movement.;)

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I think a lot of the 2.0 threads saying things have been nerfed or buffed, etc are still thinking in a 1.0 vacuum. 

There are not as many Initiative 6 ships anymore.
No Veteran Instincts or Adaptability to increase PS. 
All bombs and cloaking is done in the same phase, regardless of Initiative level.
Not as many hyper accurate focus + target lock five dice attacks anymore
Double re-positioning is rare and comes at a premium. 

All that to me means you won't need to cloak / recloak every turn any more. You shouldn't be getting shot every single round so your chances of staying alive goes up. 

Plus, you may even be able to run the old "Phantom Menace" list of Phantom + mini TIE Swarm which will actually pull its weight and provide more tactical choices for you and your opponent. 

Just because you can't decloak with perfect board state knowledge, roll five dice at range one with a focus + target lock, acquire a second focus and re-cloak, gaining an additional two defense before your opponent fires every single turn doesn't mean the ship is no longer good. Just means you may actually have to be good to get some mileage out of it.

I am confident that the people that didn't give up on the Phantom the moment it went from broken NPE (seriously, I watched a single Echo with a 55 point bid destroy 8 headhunters and only lose a single shield) to rewarding good, honest outplay will suddenly see their win ratio increase in line with the satisfaction they receive from outplaying people, even if they are using Dash + Luke Gunner + Jan Ors in the HWK. 

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7 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Hyperbole much, or the swarm player pretty much sucks. Seriously.

It was a combination of the headhunters being dragged through a dense field of asteroids and Echo only being shot at by two or three headhunters at once. Often, Echo had four to five defense dice against those shots and most head hunters were being destroyed in two turns. Two attack dice, with only a focus against that sort of defense is never great odds. 

I'm not saying it happened every single match but I watched it happen, admittedly, the phantom had been out for like two months o part there of so maybe there is an element of player skill / unfamiliarity involved too but  I cannot recall another ship doing that. Maybe PtL + Kyle + Engine + HLC Dash could have done back then, who knows, it still happened. 

I mean, I have heard of a 35 point Soontir Fel going 2 - 4 in a regional. No other ships. Just a 35 point Soontir so stranger things have happened. 

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Original Phantom was the worst ship out if v1.  It was the most rock/paper/scissor ship there was.  The 4 red dice were flat out too much.  It doesn't need it and was too powerful with it (except in late v1 meta when it was all broken).

Advanced Cloaking Device was the worst thing in the game.  It pretty much meant you either had have higher PS to fire first or you gave stress so it couldn't recloak.  Otherwise you just lost.  Might as well just compare lists and declare a winner without playing most of the time.

The changes to the Tie Phantom utterly wipes out all my issues with the ship.  It is now reasonable with just 3 red dice.  You aren't required to have a high PS to fight it.  If you are a good player with just generics you will have a shot at winning, but it won't be a cake walk.

I feel the changes were needed and will make the ship a reasonable addition to the game.

Edited by heychadwick
My phone turns shot to ****

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A cannon slot could change everything, then it becomes a fairly effective sniper especially if it has a crew slot.

Equip perceptive co-pilot, HLC, Stealth Device

That would mean you could get 4 dice attacks at range 3 while also getting 4 green dice with a focus and an evade on the defense.

 

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5 minutes ago, Xendrick said:

A cannon slot could change everything, then it becomes a fairly effective sniper especially if it has a crew slot.

Equip perceptive co-pilot, HLC, Stealth Device

That would mean you could get 4 dice attacks at range 3 while also getting 4 green dice with a focus and an evade on the defense.

 

I'd bet a small amount of money on that being the case. HLC would mean you'd get the 1st Ed level of firepower (sans range 1) in return for being able to dance around your opponents accurately. 

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3 hours ago, __underscore__ said:

I'd bet a small amount of money on that being the case. HLC would mean you'd get the 1st Ed level of firepower (sans range 1) in return for being able to dance around your opponents accurately. 

I think you're smoking crack! Excited to see either way, though I hope in the future, spoiler articles at least spoil a ships slots 

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7 hours ago, __underscore__ said:

I'd bet a small amount of money on that being the case. HLC would mean you'd get the 1st Ed level of firepower (sans range 1) in return for being able to dance around your opponents accurately. 

What do you need a Bulls Eye arc HLC when you can put a full arc Ion Cannon that sets you up for the kill next turn!

I bet if they allow a cannon slot on the Phantom, Ion cannons Phantoms are goin to be a thing!

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Without points it's hard to tell what this is all going to mean. The idea of not having ACD scares me, since half the time my 4 or 5 defense Whisper with a focus would still blow up to completely random stuff, but if she and echo end up being lower points, so a list with them isn't totally reliant on their ability to murder half the other guy's stuff, then they could still be really good. If the're just really good and unpredictable flankers that can be part of an overall solid list, that'll be more fun and less constant terror than 42 points of please don't die, please don't die.

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36 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Between the free evade and it's statline, it's gotta be approx as durable as an Xwing

So if the phantom's ******, so's the X

We'll take the rebels with us if we go, gents!

Also if they don’t need FCS we could get Sensor Jammer. Assuming they get system upgrades. Which could be huge to save them.

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Also with no need for VI (and it's not in the game).... 

Juke? If juke made it to 2.0 and has the same function. Pretty solid on a free evade ship.

I loved 1.0 juke and put it on anything I could. I would be over the moon if it's in 2.0 and can go on phantoms! 

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On 5/20/2018 at 7:51 PM, tsondaboy said:

If they get a cannon slot and their cost has droped they are going to be one of the most versatile ship the empire has. Here is for hoping. 

Yep, too much of a good stuf. Not going to happen. ?

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