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tsondaboy

Did I miss something or Phantoms got nerfed to inexistence in 2.0?

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inquisitor would stress them before they decloak

but stress does not prevent you from decloaking, nor exchanging your evade for a cloak token (so you can also re-cloak after a 4k, ACD wishes it could)

 

so, if the phantom can take crew, Inquisitor Echo would be really neat. She'd be her own int agent bump-monster

or against lower initiative, you can squeeze out an extra action before performing a blue maneuver

 

point is, Inquisitor looks super legit and a good check to higher initiative as either a bump-roll trigger or for a lambda to springboard blockers into position. With him (+ being weened of ACD +higher initiative being more expensive + higher initiative maneuverability being SEVERELY restricted compared to 1.0), higher Initiative just isn't as scary to phantoms as it used to be

 

 

also, Sense and Decloak both occur during the systems phase. Blocking shenanigans galore

gives the (not so grand) Inquisitor something really neat to do

6CV2VXS.png

Edited by ficklegreendice

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you don't need to clear stress before decloaking

you decloak, bank/straight, and then evade action. Inquisitor then covers you with "focus"

put it on Echo. You can't really be "predictable" with her ridiculous de-cloaks

Which is a one round trick, because once you use him do an action you get stress that automatically means next turn you start stressed and do not get an evade token after decloacking. So your next turn option would be to do a green after decloacking take an evade as an action and use him to hopefully barrel roll out of the higher PS guy that just activated. Still it limits you flying Whisper with him as the exclusive crew if they still have a crew slot.

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26 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

Lets see how you are going to be able to keep the token on a 2 evade dice ship. Stygium array is a way way worst ability than Full Throttle since its linked to another action and not a maneuver on a 2 agility ship.  If there is also no VI card or equivalent in 2.0 phantoms are gonna be prayed upon by any ship that has higher initiative than them.  

Phantoms don't care so much about initiative anymore...

I agree with @ficklegreendice Phantoms got buffed... hard. in 1.0 the 4 damage was pointless you meet one ps 10+ ship and even whisper is dead before using that damage.

When I first saw the 2.0 phantom I thought "owww yeah phantoms are on the table!" and whisper is really **** good now.

On top of no full 360 turrets any more phantoms are going to be ark dodging like maniacs... if they have a crew slot the grand inquisitor is going to be bolted to mine.... **** with the grand inquisitor they can cloack in the combat phase even.

Its probably the ship I am most excited about and the one I think FFG did the best with in 2.0 so far. Went from a useless ship other than for ***** and giggles (as anytime you were out ps'ed you died) to a ship with a great ability that works all the time. (all depends on point cost)

Finally, the 3 damage primary is actually a buff most likely as it was the ship was just to **** expensive on a 4hp platform bringing it down to 3 means it can be cheaper and therefore its not an all or nothing ship that gets hard-countered by 70% of the lists you will run into.

PHANTOMS ARE BACK!

 

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9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

inquisitor would stress them before they decloak

but stress does not prevent you from decloaking, nor exchanging your evade for a cloak token (so you can also re-cloak after a 4k, ACD wishes it could)

 

so, if the phantom can take crew, Inquisitor Echo would be really neat. She'd be her own int agent bump-monster

or against lower initiative, you can squeeze out an extra action before performing a blue maneuver

 

point is, Inquisitor looks super legit and a good check to higher initiative as either a bump-roll trigger or for a lambda to springboard blockers into position. With him (+ being weened of ACD +higher initiative being more expensive + higher initiative maneuverability being SEVERELY restricted compared to 1.0), higher Initiative just isn't as scary to phantoms as it used to be

 

 

also, Sense and Decloak both occur during the systems phase. Blocking shenanigans galore

gives the (not so grand) Inquisitor something really neat to do

Inquisitor doesn’t stress you before you decloak though. Decloak happens in the systems phase, which is before anyone is revealing dials.

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1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

Inquisitor doesn’t stress you before you decloak though. Decloak happens in the systems phase, which is before anyone is revealing dials.

if you pinball inquisitor off of a higher initiative activation, you'll be stressed going into next rou

but you'll also probably block the higher initiative activation because you'll know where they're going before you barrel-roll

 

 

but if you don't want to stress the phantom, you can always do the same thing with a Lambda + coordinate

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Not to mention the 1.0 iteration pretty much forced it to be the first target, because it was not only squishy so LOTS of points if you got it but it was SO DANG DEADLY that if it was allowed to goto 1on1, it never lost barring really bad flying/luck

At a cheaper price, they arent top priority. Ive done this with complete bare-boned generics (stygium, thats it) and basically used them as HLC Gunboats before we had gunboats. They often got ignored because they were low points and lacked the auto-cloak so a potential 1on1 wasnt as devastating, but then they were free to just hammer on your face repeatedly. And if you went after them, they just stayed cloaked and rolled around being elusive.

That mentality only "sorta" worked because they were still expensive, which is why i switched to HLC Gunboats when that popped up lol. If theyre about 10pts cheaper (relative to current costs), that'll be awesome.

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Remember thought that at 1.0 even the generics could consistently modify a 4 dice attack with FCS and a focus.
In 2.0 not only they got their attack lowered but also their ability to push it through since FCS does nothing on them any more.

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Why does it have to work like a skipper missle (Wing Commander reference) or bust? This new phantom looks awesome. You STAY cloaked until you have a shot and as others have stated you have options to get right back into cloak. Treat it like a sniper not a phase tank. It’s not a warrior it’s a rogue in warcraft terms. This thing is beautiful and I am proud to own 3 for once.

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

if you pinball inquisitor off of a higher initiative activation, you'll be stressed going into next rou

but you'll also probably block the higher initiative activation because you'll know where they're going before you barrel-roll

 

 

but if you don't want to stress the phantom, you can always do the same thing with a Lambda + coordinate

I am not sure how you can use coordinate to arc dodge out of a higher ps arc unless Lambda has PS6 pilots that are not spoiled yet. Not to mention at range 3 inquisitor does nothing.

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The other thing that would make me fly phantoms again is if they got some upgrade that lets them attack while cloaked.
You lose your repositioning ability but you at least get to attack.

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11 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

I am not sure how you can use coordinate to arc dodge out of a higher ps arc unless Lambda has PS6 pilots that are not spoiled yet. Not to mention at range 3 inquisitor does nothing.

you don't arc-dodge, you use it to barrel-roll into a block (unless it's a higher PS ship that cannot reposition or cannot boost)

it's like int agent but far superior as you can jam your phantom/lambda in your opponent's face on the same turn you use it

Edited by ficklegreendice

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The phantom cloak redesign is a good one, but the lack of target lock action will likely be their Achilles heal. Phantoms will likely be costed way to high upon release. If there's not a way to increase their offense they will remain DOA even with a cost reduction. The new TIE defender is broken. One of those could solo 2 phantoms.

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16 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

Remember thought that at 1.0 even the generics could consistently modify a 4 dice attack with FCS and a focus.
In 2.0 not only they got their attack lowered but also their ability to push it through since FCS does nothing on them any more.

That's a laugh,

The generics consistently died before doing anything with there 4 dice attacks or were played so passively they only attacked every 2-3 turns. You paid a colossal ton of points for a Z-95, except at least the z-95 occasionally get to shoot unlike the focus fired generic phantoms (in 1.0 of course). And if you got a generic to 2 turns of shooting to have FCS do anything I have no idea what your opponent is doing but its certainly not trying to win. The best results i got out of generics in 1.0 was Stygnum + LWF and that was still way to janky and expensive.

I stand by my statement that the 3 damage primary is a boost to the phantom in reducing the cost of a ship that's so fragile, it's not a liability to take any more. (hopefully, cost pending of course)

 



 

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2 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

The phantom cloak redesign is a good one, but the lack of target lock action will likely be their Achilles heal. Phantoms will likely be costed way to high upon release. If there's not a way to increase their offense they will remain DOA even with a cost reduction. The new TIE defender is broken. One of those could solo 2 phantoms.

Might cost 2x phantoms we dont know.

Also the new defender is good, but its still a defender and does not turn well, phantoms eat ships that dont turn well. and Echo is now useable... good luck pinning that ship down.

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Exactly, unless they remove the mod slot for phantoms (doubtful, i imagine that will be a very low number of ships to lack mods) the mod slot is 100% open now as is the talent slot, which previously were hard-glued to ACD/VI

1.0 FCS would be broken in 2.0 where double-mods without a support ship is rare. Adv Sensors so far is probably the winner, but afaik they have only spoiled 2 sensor slots so far as we know there could be some new ones it would enjoy more than FCS anyway.

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10 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Wasn’t there a ship that passed target locks? If not there well could be. Just because the phantom can’t lock doesn’t mean it can’t get one.

no word on 2.0 systems officers yet

maybe the reaper will tell

 

anyway, for mod slots imagine a phantom with after-burners

good ******* luck figuring out where that's going to end up

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Do we know if you can equip force powers to a ship with a crew that gives your ship a force stat or do force powers take an upgrade slot?

You might be able to equip a Phantom with the Grand Inquisitor as well as Sense.

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54 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you don't arc-dodge, you use it to barrel-roll into a block (unless it's a higher PS ship that cannot reposition or cannot boost)

it's like int agent but far superior as you can jam your phantom/lambda in your opponent's face on the same turn you use it

Not mean to be rude but it really begs the question, have you actually flown the Phantom after the decloack change?
I mean, if you cannot reposition yourself with the decloack to block, whats the point in bringing one in the game in the first place?!
Even in the current meta that doesn't favor them I ve flown them in tournaments with Intensity instead of VI and have a good knowledge how hard is to go against higher PS. And thats now that evade adds a dice and can possibly mitigate 3 damage and still end up cloaked at the end of the turn. With the evade change damage mitigation is not possible, so if you are not planing to use barrel roll to arc dodge I am not sure whats your plan to keep them alive for more than 2 turns or to be cloaked for next turn.

Again I am sorry for all this negativity, I am not trolling you. I just hope I am wrong and they give us some pretty cool upgrades for them. But they way evade works now, I do not see their place in the competitive play any more. Unless of course the point cost is so dramatic that you can bring them with 2 more aces in a squad.

Edited by tsondaboy

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4 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

Not mean to be rude but it really begs the question, have you actually flown the Phantom after the decloack change?
I mean, if you cannot reposition yourself with the decloack to block, whats the point in bringing one in the game in the first place?!
Even in the current meta that doesn't favor them I ve flown them in tournaments with Intensity instead of VI and have a good knowledge how hard is to go against higher PS. And thats now that evade adds a dice and can possibly mitigate 3 damage and still end up cloaked at the end of the turn. With the evade change damage mitigation is not possible, so if you are not planing to use barrel roll to arc dodge I am not sure whats your plan to keep them alive for more than 2 turns or to be cloaked for next turn.

Again I am sorry for all this negativity, I am not trolling you. I just hope I am wrong and they give us some pretty cool upgrades for them. But they way evade works now, I do not see their place in the competitive play any more. Unless of course the point cost is so dramatic that you can bring them with 2 more aces in a squad.

How many times were people rolling full evades on 2 and 3 dice attacks in 1.0? I certainly wasn't but from the complaining on the forums about the evade change everyone else must have been only rolling evade results.

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1 hour ago, tsondaboy said:

Remember thought that at 1.0 even the generics could consistently modify a 4 dice attack with FCS and a focus.
In 2.0 not only they got their attack lowered but also their ability to push it through since FCS does nothing on them any more.

Right but what you're forgetting is in 2.0, the ability of shrugging off attacks is nowhere near as good anymore.  Evades don't add a result in 2.0, they just change a die.  Also if a ship is taking said Evade, then that's probably all they are doing because there aren't that many Evade actions that chain into a Focus or vice versa.  So the importance of mods aren't as crucial anymore because it's much easier to punch some damage through in 2.0 with natties or with just a Focus.  The reduced attack value isn't going to hurt them as much as you think.

Plus like others have said, a few decent mods require bull'seye arcs, and Phantoms are going to be tough to get a bead on to take advantage of it.

Edited by Darth Landy

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Phantom get buffed by ships getting arcs again, no more get alpha shot by a ship that can atack in 360º and have a high ps than you. This alone is alread enoth to get Phantom back in the game, but you get more

 

- free evade when decloak

- recloak is not an action, if you are stressed and have your evade you can clock and flee

- you now have an EPT and modification slot (before it was exclusive for VI/ACD)

- one more hit point, in a game where heavly modified atack dice are rare (i didin't see any ship that can link focus/target lock until now) and all automatick modifications like predator needs the bulls eye

- one less atack dice, it looks bad, but it means that the ship will get a huge price discount (one more atack costed 12 points in some ship in 1.0), so it will not cost half your squad poins anymore, and you can pair it with another strong ships.

 

 

  I just see good things...

Edited by galahadba

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