Tournament Regulations are up

[Undeadguy 5,749]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-legion/

Scroll to bottom. 

Discuss.

[Rogue Dakotan 5,213]

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/38/fe/38fe86db-3995-4503-b9a5-b4ccebd4568a/swl_tournament_regulations_v10.pdf

Click that link. 

Discuss. 

[azavander 150]

This are the points I found interesting based on all the conversation the past few months.

 

•Players may paint their miniatures and official terrain products. They cannot modify a mini or official terrain in any way that would create significant confusion about which unit or terrain type the mini or terrain product represents.

• Players cannot modify minis or use bases to significantly alter their size, height, or shape. The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of any miniature modifications. Players that have made more than minor alterations should check with the marshal before an event to determine if their mini or official terrain is legal. The marshal at a Relaxed event will likely be more flexible than at a Formal event when determining a mini’s legality, while the marshal may allow the least flexibility at Premier events.

• Players may modify or replace individual bases, but the modified or new base must work with official movement tools, have generally the same diameter and size as the original, and clearly and accurately delineate any firing arcs that miniature has.

•Cards must remain unaltered, though they may be sleeved for protection.

• Players may mark their tokens, range ruler, and movement tools to indicate ownership as long as the function of the component is not compromised. Players must be careful not to mark order tokens in anyway that would uniquely identify them when they are in the player’s order pool.

• Players may mark dice with a permanent or indelible marker to indicate ownership in an unobtrusive manner, but cannot otherwise alter them in any way

 

 

Players shuffle the blue player’s objective, deployment, and condition decks separately, then draw and reveal three cards from each deck, laying out each category in a horizontal row oriented right side up according to the blue player’s side of the battlefield.

Edited May 16, 2018 by azavander
edit to add objective info

[NeonWolf 942]

First couple of things that stand out to me:

-TO is expected to provide terrain for all tables

- Players bring 12 total Battle Cards (4 from each category) and you use the Blue Player's cards during setup.  Blue/Red player is determined as usual

- Tournaments points are Win=1, Loss=0

- 120 minute Swiss rounds, setup is part of that time limit.

 

The terrain reg doesn't really surprise me but the Battle Cards do a bit.  I was expecting something closer to how Runewars handles it but "Turn 0" seems to be a bigger part of this game than it is in Runewars.

Pure win/lose for tournament points makes sense I guess, just not used to seeing a 1 or 0 point system.  Makes all the speculation about Victory Points relating to Tournament Points incorrect and means that tabling your opponent is just as much a win as having more victory tokens.  Seems a bit "I only have to out run the bear" to me but maybe I haven't pondered it enough yet.

120 minute rounds are do-able but I know in my local group some people are going to have to seriously speed up their decision-making processes or plan on only playing 3-4 rounds of a game

Edited May 16, 2018 by NeonWolf

[Crawfskeezen 370]

This is the biggest one for me:

Army Building

Each player must build one army to use in a tournament. Standard Play typically uses the army-building rules in the Star Wars: Legion Rules Reference, but occasionally an Event Outline will provide alternative army-building rules. For typical Standard Play events, an army cannot exceed 800 points, though it may contain fewer than 800 points. A player’s army must contain miniatures from only one faction unless an effect allows him or her to do otherwise. A player’s army must also include the appropriate number of units of each rank, as listed in the Star Wars: Legion Rules Reference.

Does this imply that we could see some interchange in the future, or is this just a reference to the aforementioned alternative army-building rules?

[DekoPuma 636]

Tie breaker for tournaments is strength of schedule.

Relaxed tier has very few rounds compared to most games.

That means strength of schedule is going to be very important.

[azavander 150]

8 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

- Players bring 12 total Battle Cards (4 from each category) and you use the Blue Player's cards during setup.  Blue/Red player is determined as usual

 

 

Yeah I thought this was interesting, a little more incentive to be blue player as we get more objective/deployment/condition cards, you could eliminate anything that doesn't work well for you.  Playing with Mortars, dont bring the limited visibility card.

[Dwing 2,307]

20 minutes ago, azavander said:

This are the points I found interesting based on all the conversation the past few months.

 

•Players may paint their miniatures and official terrain products. They cannot modify a mini or official terrain in any way that would create significant confusion about which unit or terrain type the mini or terrain product represents.

• Players cannot modify minis or use bases to significantly alter their size, height, or shape. The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of any miniature modifications. Players that have made more than minor alterations should check with the marshal before an event to determine if their mini or official terrain is legal. The marshal at a Relaxed event will likely be more flexible than at a Formal event when determining a mini’s legality, while the marshal may allow the least flexibility at Premier events.

• Players may modify or replace individual bases, but the modified or new base must work with official movement tools, have generally the same diameter and size as the original, and clearly and accurately delineate any firing arcs that miniature has.

•Cards must remain unaltered, though they may be sleeved for protection.

• Players may mark their tokens, range ruler, and movement tools to indicate ownership as long as the function of the component is not compromised. Players must be careful not to mark order tokens in anyway that would uniquely identify them when they are in the player’s order pool.

• Players may mark dice with a permanent or indelible marker to indicate ownership in an unobtrusive manner, but cannot otherwise alter them in any way

 

 

Players shuffle the blue player’s objective, deployment, and condition decks separately, then draw and reveal three cards from each deck, laying out each category in a horizontal row oriented right side up according to the blue player’s side of the battlefield.

All the right descisions was made here, bravo FFG

[NeonWolf 942]

Just now, azavander said:

Yeah I thought this was interesting, a little more incentive to be blue player as we get more objective/deployment/condition cards, you could eliminate anything that doesn't work well for you.  Playing with Mortars, dont bring the limited visibility card.

True.  It won't really matter until the Priority Supplies expansion releases but still, adds a bit more to competitive army building

[DarkTemplars 85]

25 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

120 minute rounds are do-able but I know in my local group some people are going to have to seriously speed up their decision-making processes or plan on only playing 3-4 rounds of a game

Nothing that new. The majority of my WH40K games(3rd ed) in tournaments always went to time. And some of those only got 3-4 rounds in due to analysis-paralysis. 

[AintNoPoser 117]

36 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

First couple of things that stand out to me:

-TO is expected to provide terrain for all tables

- Players bring 12 total Battle Cards (4 from each category) and you use the Blue Player's cards during setup.  Blue/Red player is determined as usual

- Tournaments points are Win=1, Loss=0

- 120 minute Swiss rounds, setup is part of that time limit.

 

 

Once players complete the steps above, they must wait for a leader to announce the start of the round before beginning their game. If the round has already begun, players may begin playing immediately upon completing these steps.

Set up isn't part of time, but could be. I doubt any TO would start the time before set up unless they're pressed for time. 

[NeonWolf 942]

2 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

Once players complete the steps above, they must wait for a leader to announce the start of the round before beginning their game. If the round has already begun, players may begin playing immediately upon completing these steps.

Set up isn't part of time, but could be. I doubt any TO would start the time before set up unless they're pressed for time. 

Under the Tournament Round Times further down the document:

Quote

A leader should start the timer for a tournament round after most players have found their seats and begun to set up.

Sounds like it is up to the TO on when to start the clock.  Based on the Tournament Structures it doesn't seem like there would be any rush to start the clock.

[Zrob314 833]

1 hour ago, NeonWolf said:

-TO is expected to provide terrain for all tables

As said elsewhere, this is not in the document.  

And I promise I'm not trying to hound you, I just think more people will see this thread than the other one and feel it is important to quash this expectation early.

Page 6: Using Custom Terrain:

Organizers and players may use custom terrain to fulfill the terrain requirements for each game. If the organizer provides terrain for a tournament, they must ensure each table has a variety of terrain types. If players are asked or allowed to bring their own terrain, the organizer should place that terrain at tables as they would place the store’s to ensure fairness amongst all competitors. The owner of the custom terrain should ensure they mark the terrain in order uniquely identify the terrain at the end of the event.

 

So, TOs may allow custom terrain or they may disallow it and if they allow it it looks like it's supposed to be broken up over different tables, which seems completely fair to me.

I mean yeah, it's not to play with my endor bunker because I know exactly how it works....but I shouldn't get it on my table every time. 

[nashjaee 750]

17 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

As said elsewhere, this is not in the document.  

And I promise I'm not trying to hound you, I just think more people will see this thread than the other one and feel it is important to quash this expectation early.

Page 6: Using Custom Terrain:

Organizers and players may use custom terrain to fulfill the terrain requirements for each game. If the organizer provides terrain for a tournament, they must ensure each table has a variety of terrain types. If players are asked or allowed to bring their own terrain, the organizer should place that terrain at tables as they would place the store’s to ensure fairness amongst all competitors. The owner of the custom terrain should ensure they mark the terrain in order uniquely identify the terrain at the end of the event.

 

So, TOs may allow custom terrain or they may disallow it and if they allow it it looks like it's supposed to be broken up over different tables, which seems completely fair to me.

I mean yeah, it's not to play with my endor bunker because I know exactly how it works....but I shouldn't get it on my table every time. 

To be fair, it says the TO is responsible for securing terrain on page 4. Whether they physically bring it or not is irrelevant, I think. But they are ultimately responsible for terrain.

Quote

In addition to arranging a location, the organizer is responsible for securing tables that can hold a 3’ by 6’ play surface for each game of two players, as well as terrain for the play surface and chairs for players.

 

[NeonWolf 942]

@Zrob314

Totally understand, didn't take it as hounding.  However, I knew I read something that pointed at the TO providing the terrain and @nashjaee found it.

[Orkimedes 592]

Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

 

I think they watched 40k ITC champs at LVO, hahah.

Seriously though, glad they have stuff about sportsmanship and conduct in there.

[NeonWolf 942]

4 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

 

I think they watched 40k ITC champs at LVO, hahah.

Seriously though, glad they have stuff about sportsmanship and conduct in there.

Took me some searching to find your quote since it is under Missed Opportunities and not under Conduct where I expected it to be.  It also says under Unsporting Conduct :

Quote

Players are expected to behave in a mature and considerate manner and to play within the rules and
not abuse them. This prohibits intentionally stalling a game for time, placing components with
excessive force, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect,
cheating, etc. Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden.
The organizer, at his or her sole discretion, may remove players from the tournament for
unsporting conduct.

So don't rush anyone and don't intentionally stall.  Gotta find the Baby Bear play speed.

[Orkimedes 592]

25 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Took me some searching to find your quote since it is under Missed Opportunities and not under Conduct where I expected it to be.  It also says under Unsporting Conduct :

So don't rush anyone and don't intentionally stall.  Gotta find the Baby Bear play speed.

Yeah, just quoted that part because the exact bit about rushing someone to force a missed opportunity happened quite publicly and famously at LVO.

[Tokra 2,147]

2 hours ago, DekoPuma said:

Tie breaker for tournaments is strength of schedule.

Relaxed tier has very few rounds compared to most games.

That means strength of schedule is going to be very important.

But the strength of schedule (SoS) is the only one you cannot affect. It is totally random.

 

This is by far the most stupid think i ever saw (this TR). A pure win-loss system (1-0). Without any MOV or extra value. 
Time and Rounds from Armada without the 1-10 point system.

A tournament with 24 players should have 3 rounds. And a cut for top 2. After this 3 rounds you will have 3 Player with 3-0 and with a SoS that they cannot influence at all.
Sorry to say, but this is the biggest bull i ever saw for tournaments.
I knew that this game was not meant to be a tournament game, but this is really below all my expectations. 

Legion should have at least the same rounds as X-Wing has. With the same cut. But i do understand that this is not working with the time for each round. This is why i was interested to see how they solve it (i was hopping for point system like Armada).

 

And don't even let me start with Basic Structure. 32 Player and 3 rounds with no cut? Really? There are 4 player with 3 wins after this 3 rounds. With a total random SoS.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Tokra

[GilDK 47]

Yeah I might just do Warmachine rounds, so 4players 2 rounds 8 =3, 16=4 etc, that works for 1 unbeaten and the rest is then SoS.

But the no MoW is probably because they are trying to do the same as Imperial Assault.

[Zrob314 833]

1 hour ago, nashjaee said:

To be fair, it says the TO is responsible for securing terrain on page 4. Whether they physically bring it or not is irrelevant, I think. But they are ultimately responsible for terrain.

 

Sorry, but "secure" is not the same as "provide."  Subtle difference, but important.

We can figure this out after we figure our if you have to fly off the table with a compulsory move or if you can stop yourself.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Zrob314

[nashjaee 750]

12 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Sorry, but "secure" is not the same as "provide."  Subtle difference, but important.

Of course. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. In fact I mostly agree. The TO is not responsible for bringing the terrain, but is responsible for organizing the terrain situation. As in, if there isn't enough terrain on the day of the event, blame is placed on the TO because he/she didn't bring enough, didn't ask others to bring some, etc. Maybe I should have phrased my previous comment differently.

12 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

We can figure this out after we figure our if you have to fly off the table with a compulsory move or if you can stop yourself.

Not sure why this is relevant? I thought that was resolved elsewhere?

Edited May 17, 2018 by nashjaee

[DarkTemplars 85]

41 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Sorry, but "secure" is not the same as "provide."  Subtle difference, but important.

We can figure this out after we figure our if you have to fly off the table with a compulsory move or if you can stop yourself.

It's basically just saying that a TO should know and post ahead of time if they need players to bring in some terrain for an event. 

[kaffis 407]

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

But the strength of schedule (SoS) is the only one you cannot affect. It is totally random.

 

This is by far the most stupid think i ever saw (this TR). A pure win-loss system (1-0). Without any MOV or extra value. 
Time and Rounds from Armada without the 1-10 point system.

A tournament with 24 players should have 3 rounds. And a cut for top 2. After this 3 rounds you will have 3 Player with 3-0 and with a SoS that they cannot influence at all.
Sorry to say, but this is the biggest bull i ever saw for tournaments.
I knew that this game was not meant to be a tournament game, but this is really below all my expectations. 

Legion should have at least the same rounds as X-Wing has. With the same cut. But i do understand that this is not working with the time for each round. This is why i was interested to see how they solve it (i was hopping for point system like Armada).

 

And don't even let me start with Basic Structure. 32 Player and 3 rounds with no cut? Really? There are 4 player with 3 wins after this 3 rounds. With a total random SoS.

SoS may be somewhat random (especially for your first round opponent), but it does speak to how difficult it was for you to achieve that score. You may not be able to affect it, but it will reward those who drew the more difficult schedules and still excelled.

32 player with 3 rounds will have 4 3-0s. This isn't a huge travesty if they do prize support for top 4, which isn't uncommon for FFG. It may just mean that we don't see 1st/2nd place prize support for things like Store Champs.

[Yodhrin 353]

I'm glad competitive players have some certainty. I just hope that most of you will refrain from trying to impose these regs in normal, everyday play.