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Rauhughes

Quick Sir Valadir Question

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Posted (edited)

Hero ability;

Once per turn, after dice are rolled, you may suffer 1 Fatigue.png to add 1 Surge.png to your attack roll

Question;

If Sir Valadir has already suffered  Fatigue.png up to his stamina, can he still activate this ability and suffer a damage instead?

Thanks!

Edited by Rauhughes
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the response. 

Given the wording is similar to that of runic knowledge;

While you have a Magic or Rune weapon equipped, each of your attacks gains:
Surge.png: Suffer 1 Fatigue.png to gain +2 Heart.png

And this skill has been FAQ'd to confirm you MAY use this skill whilst max fatigued, is there any reason why you think Sir Valadir's hero ability would be different?;

Q: Can Runemaster hero use Runic Knowledge surge ability if he has no fatigue to suffer and suffer 1 damage instead?

A: Yes he can.

 

Edited by Rauhughes
Typo

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I think there is a small, but important difference here:

In general, if you are max fatigued, you can never suffer fatigue voluntarily. Using skills (that have  fatigue costs), including the heroic ability is suffering fatigue voluntarily. The runemaster skill is however slightly different. He is using a surge ability voluntarily which causes him to suffer one damage in fatigue. The fatigue damage is not a cost, but an effect of that surge.

Hope that helps.

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I think it would be a bit more intuitive if ffg would have used the word "pay" instead of "suffer" whenever they refer to a hero voluntarily loosing fatigue.

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Thanks Chaoticus. That is indeed a little clearer, but I'm struggling in my mind's eye to see the difference as they both have you 'suffering' a fatigue. 

I'm happy to go with the general consensus, and we ruled it could NOT be used in the campaign, but I said I'd check for next time. 

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37 minutes ago, Rauhughes said:

Thanks Chaoticus. That is indeed a little clearer, but I'm struggling in my mind's eye to see the difference as they both have you 'suffering' a fatigue. 

I'm happy to go with the general consensus, and we ruled it could NOT be used in the campaign, but I said I'd check for next time. 

Try thinking of it this way:

Valadir's ability is essentially "you may pay one fatigue to add a surge", while the runic knowledge skill is, "you may pay one surge to suffer fatigue and add 2 damage to the attack results."  In the first case, the fatigue is how the ability is triggered. In the second, the fatigue is part of the effect. The difference is subtle.

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I always think that heroes could suffers Heart instead of Fatigue when the word "suffer" was printed but cannot when it was the symbol showned ?

That would nerf many of my games !!

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2 hours ago, rugal said:

I always think that heroes could suffers Heart instead of Fatigue when the word "suffer" was printed but cannot when it was the symbol showned ?

That would nerf many of my games !!

It has nothing to do with the word or the symbol. It has to do with the distinction between triggering an ability and performing an ability.

For example, you CANNOT suffer fatigue as wound to:

-gain MP

-use a skill with a fatigue cost in the bottom right (for example, Oath of Honor has a cost of 1).

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, rugal said:

wow ! that nerf many things !!

Hmm.. if you were playing the game such that heroes could generally pay fatigue costs for abilities using their health when they were out of stamina, then this was a very necessary modification to your heroes' play! This is a critical rule for proper gameplay balance. Attacking the heroes' stamina to deny critical plays is one of the most important ways in which the Overlord can stay alive.

The Runemaster's Runic Knowledge is a very special exception because of its wording, and is part of the reason it is a top-tier class.

Edited by Charmy

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I used to play that if the word "suffer" was written, heroes could spend fatigue, but couldn't if the symbol was printed

and it looks likes I was wrong all along

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