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LordEnforcer

Protect/Unleash question

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Ok I was wondering if this skill would be worth it if you only had 3 intelligence?

Lets say I have unlocked the entire tree.. and have 3 intel and 3 force dice.. how much unleash damage could i really hope for? Especially if the target has a 1 defense and 5 soak??

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Unleash is based off of Willpower, not Intellect, so bear that in mind.

If you have 3 Willpower, FR 3, and the full Unleash tree, and you rolled 6 Pips, you could do up to 19 wounds, before Soak, to a single target in short range (2 pips to activate the base power, then each additional pip spent on Strength nets you 4 more damage, one damage for Strength upgrade purchased). 

You can also use any Advantages accrued on the Discipline check to cause Strain damage or crits. 

That is probably not the most efficient use of the power, given you can hit multiple targets, cause Burn 2, Ensnare 2, or reduce your crit rating from 4 down to 1, but that's not the question you asked. 

Edited by Vek Baustrade

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3 Willpower = 3 Damage, spending two pips to activate the basic ability.

4 Strength upgrades = 4 Damage per pip, can activate multiple times.

So 6 pips = 3 (2 pips) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) = 19

Though that is base damage, so add net hits from the discipline check, and remove soak.

Edited by Darzil

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3 minutes ago, Darzil said:

3 Willpower = 3 Damage, spending two pips to activate the basic ability.

4 Strength upgrades = 4 Damage per pip, can activate multiple times.

So 6 pips = 3 (2 pips) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) = 19

Though that is base damage, so add net hits from the discipline check, and remove soak.

Ouch!!!!! ?

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Even better the upgrade that allows you to flip a destiny to use it as a manoeuvre, along with seers ability to use a force power as a manoeuvre once a session for 3 casts of it in a single turn for 4 strain 1 destiny to do 57 maximum damage on the best roll ever made.

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3 hours ago, SithArissa said:

Even better the upgrade that allows you to flip a destiny to use it as a manoeuvre, along with seers ability to use a force power as a manoeuvre once a session for 3 casts of it in a single turn for 4 strain 1 destiny to do 57 maximum damage on the best roll ever made.

And add in the 2 expected ranks in Channel Agony in the Magus tree for +2 pips on each of those three lightning blasts (at a cost of 12 total wounds; hope you have some Toughened!), for a total of +24 additional damage!

We call this "the Sidious."

 

EDIT:  Alternatively, spend only one of the extra pips from Channeling your Agony on Strength.  You drop your total (initial) damage by 12, but you spend the OTHER bonus pip on Burn 2.  Remember, the Strength upgrades increase the BASE damage of the attack, meaning with Willpower 3 and five triggers of Strength, each attack deals 3+4+4+4+4+4 = 23 damage + Successes - Soak, and for just 2 Advantage on each blast, and deals 23 - Soak damage for the next two rounds!

With all three blasts, that means the target takes 69 + (Successes on three checks) - (Soak *3) damage the round you attack, and 69 - (Soak *3) damage for the next two rounds!  With your example of 5 soak, and if we assume only a single success on all three attack rolls, that's 19+19+19 damage (57) on round 1, 18+18+18 (54) on round 2, and 18+18+18 (54) on round 3, for a grand total of 165 damage.

...Ouch...

Edited by Absol197

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1 hour ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Lest we get too far ahead of ourselves, the base damage is Willpower plus uncancelled successes on the check, just like any other ranged combat check. Just for purposes of calculating that potential damage there...

Make sure to read the full description of all upgrades.  The Protect/Unleash Strength Upgrade specifically reads as follows:

"Strength Upgrade:  The Strength upgrade improves both Protect and Unleash.  Spend 1 Force Point to increase the damage reduced by Protect by 1 per Strength upgrade for this use, or spend 1 Force Point to add 1 damage per Strength upgrade to the base damage of Unleash for this attack.  The user may activate this multiple times." (emphasis mine)

The Strength upgrades increase the base damage, which is what Burn keys off of.  It doesn't read like it if you just read the short description in the tree.

Another commonly missed but key detail that's not in the short description is that the Misdirect upgrade that lets you create free illusions (not just hide or alter something else) always requires a Deception vs. Vigilance check to create the illusion, not just against Nemeses and such.

 

EDIT:  Hmm... I will admit there is some confusion in the wording, as the description of the Base Damage weapon characteristic reads: "The base damage the weapon inflicts.  This is the minimum damage inflicted  if the attack with this weapon hits.  Each net Success generated on the attack check adds one point of damage to this base damage rating."

So they use the same phrasing, "...adds [damage] to the base damage..."  So I may be mistaken on that, although that would make Unleash rather underwhelming, in my opinion.  The maximum Willpower possible is 6, and most targets are going to have Soak 3 at a minimum (Brawn 2 and heaving clothing), with 4 and 5 being rather common (Stormtroopers are an obvious example), meaning the Duration upgrade becomes useless (or near useless) unless you have literally the maximum possible Willpower, and even then it's still only a total of +2 to +4 damage over 2 rounds.  The same you could get at the time of your attack by using the pip spent to get Burn to activate Strength again.  You'd be doing even better than that, too, because the two Advantage spent to activate Burn could be spent to inflict strain or build towards a crit.

 

EDIT 2:  I did a quick survey of weapons with Burn in OggDude's generator.  I'm certain I missed some, but if you discount the tools that can be used as weapons, the lowest base damage I found was 6, and that's for a mini, wrist-mounted rocket.  I find it unlikely that Strength isn't meant to add to the base damage (and therefore Burn) if the only weapons that use the Burn quality would require the absolute maximum possible base Willpower.  But perhaps someone can pose the question to the devs and see what they say.

Edited by Absol197

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8 hours ago, Darzil said:

3 Willpower = 3 Damage, spending two pips to activate the basic ability.

4 Strength upgrades = 4 Damage per pip, can activate multiple times.

So 6 pips = 3 (2 pips) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) = 19

Though that is base damage, so add net hits from the discipline check, and remove soak.

max damage for a consular with FR8 with the aid of imbue

(7+(4*15)+13)*3=240 with 3 crits

yes i was lucky enough to get this while versing a star destroyer, needless to say it did not survive and i only suffer 4 strain from the exchange

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13 hours ago, Absol197 said:

EDIT:  Hmm... I will admit there is some confusion in the wording, as the description of the Base Damage weapon characteristic reads: "The base damage the weapon inflicts.  This is the minimum damage inflicted  if the attack with this weapon hits.  Each net Success generated on the attack check adds one point of damage to this base damage rating."

Yes, it is at first blush a little confusing because Protect has explicit wording that each uncancelled success adds +1 protection, while Unleash does not have similar wording regarding damage inflicted. However the reason for this difference in wording is because Unleash is covered under the generic 'ranged attack' rules for making a combat check (that is, Unleash is a Ranged Attack), in which uncancelled success always add to damage. This is why it is not explicitly called out in the wording for Unleash.

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8 hours ago, Stormbourne said:

max damage for a consular with FR8 with the aid of imbue

(7+(4*15)+13)*3=240 with 3 crits

yes i was lucky enough to get this while versing a star destroyer, needless to say it did not survive and i only suffer 4 strain from the exchange 

While this is indeed an impressive amount of damage, remember the conversion of personal scale to planetary scale damage is 1/10; so for each hit of 80 damage, it would do 8 damage at planetary scale, then reduced by armor. If memory serves, an ISD has an armor rating in the 9 - 10 point range. So the ISD takes no damage, and no critical hits would be allowed.

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28 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

While this is indeed an impressive amount of damage, remember the conversion of personal scale to planetary scale damage is 1/10; so for each hit of 80 damage, it would do 8 damage at planetary scale, then reduced by armor. If memory serves, an ISD has an armor rating in the 9 - 10 point range. So the ISD takes no damage, and no critical hits would be allowed.

cause i was inside the star destroyer at the time (and the fact that the entire escape plan hinged on me doing this) my GM bent the rules a bit allowing me to ignore armor and only scaling to something like 1/5 damage

Edited by Stormbourne

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Off the top of my head, I don't think any of the published Force power's basic effects require you to use a particular color of pip to generate the Force points to fuel them.  They might have slightly different effects depending on whether you used black pips or not (such as Battle Meditation inflicting a penalty to Willpower and Bind inflicting damage), or might give you Conflict for using the "darker" aspect (which I believe is what the Harm and Unleash portions of Heal/Harm and Protect/Unleash respectively do), but that's about it.

Now there's Control Upgrades for some powers that have different effects based upon which color pip you used, but those are exceptions rather than the rule.

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On 5/14/2018 at 4:10 PM, Darzil said:

3 Willpower = 3 Damage, spending two pips to activate the basic ability.

4 Strength upgrades = 4 Damage per pip, can activate multiple times.

So 6 pips = 3 (2 pips) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) + 4 (1 pip) = 19

Though that is base damage, so add net hits from the discipline check, and remove soak.

Image result for unlimited power

 

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