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Bertie Wooster

Hover the maneuver tool?

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"If the maneuver tool cannot be placed on the play area
because it would overlap a ship or squadron, the player
should hold the maneuver tool above the play area and
estimate the final position of the moving ship." RRG, p.7

Question: Is this how people actually have to play? I have only played with friends, never in a tournament. But hovering the tool in the air seems imprecise. Is there anything in the tournament regulations or an FAQ that changed this to allow people to mark the place of their ship/squadrons, instead of holding the maneuver tool above the play area? (I looked and couldn't find anything.)

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I've seen it done this way and when done this way it often involves a lot of the moving player asking their opponent if the final position looks fine to them before proceeding.

Generally I prefer to mark ship locations then put the tool down on the table, though.

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55 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

"If the maneuver tool cannot be placed on the play area
because it would overlap a ship or squadron, the player
should hold the maneuver tool above the play area and
estimate the final position of the moving ship." RRG, p.7

Question: Is this how people actually have to play? I have only played with friends, never in a tournament. But hovering the tool in the air seems imprecise. Is there anything in the tournament regulations or an FAQ that changed this to allow people to mark the place of their ship/squadrons, instead of holding the maneuver tool above the play area? (I looked and couldn't find anything.)

I've seen it done both ways at tournaments. Sometimes players simply agree that the end result doesn't justify the time consumed for marking ships. If the ship's destination isn't going to involve a double arc or the ship landing isn't important enough to shoot because of other ships, sometimes players agree to just hover the tool. As long as both players agree there's no issue. 

I think it's also important to understand that while accuracy should be maintained whenever possible, the game is simply not one of precision. In a game where millimeters can determine outcomes, FFG has made it clear through the quality of their products that the game is expected to have some... flux... for instance, many of the prize rulers awarded at events do not match the cardboard punches that come with the core set. Worse yet, there have been cases of cardboard pieces not matching each other. Because FFG has never officially determined the proper length of a any of the ranges, often times a tool can be both correct and incorrect. The maneuver tools have also been known to flex a bit, I've seen one flex as much as  .25" at speed 4.

So bottom line, have fun, talk to your opponent and see what works best for them and go with it. 

 

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Thirded.  If I don't think it's gonna be important, I check and make sure my opponent is okay with the hover method.  If he's okay with it, I do it; otherwise I'm happy to mark.  I expect the same courtesy in return. 

That way, if either player has something set up such that spacing is crucial--some practiced formation or an approach they're setting up or whatever--they have the opportunity to request that the move be measured more precisely than "eh...", but you don't waste a bunch of time measuring when it's not important.  Which is like 80% of the time.

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Wow, this is really interesting. Thank you all for your input! I may have to give the hover method a try for non-crucial maneuvering, and see if my friends are OK with it too. 

I should also mention that our games always take a LONG time, I don't think I have ever finished six rounds in less than four hours (including obstacle placement), so I think anything that could speed up the game is worth a try. There are other reasons for our long games, of course, (interruptions, eating, thinking long and hard about what ship to activate) but moving all the pieces does feel like a lot. 

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So I'll weigh in here.  I actually prefer the hover method with communication from the opponent because marking ships and moving them creates all sorts of other hazards to the game state.  I've hit markers with tools and had markers move all over trying to put the ships back down or pick them up.  Unless the tool will not physically fit where it needs to go we normally hover it.  And even then we are more apt to remove a model from a base and hover than to remove the whole base from the play mat.  There is so much that can go wrong with either method though that you can't expect exactness and you'll have to get used to just letting things go a bit.. coughsquadronmovementcough :) or you'll end up being not much fun to play with.

That being said, don't let someone take advantage of you.. or try to take advantage of someone else.  Communicate and be as fair as you can be.

There are times with the need for the most exactness possible that we will try to carefully mark and remove everything but that kind of care takes time.. lots of time.

Edited by durandal343

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22 hours ago, durandal343 said:

So I'll weigh in here.  I actually prefer the hover method with communication from the opponent because marking ships and moving them creates all sorts of other hazards to the game state.  I've hit markers with tools and had markers move all over trying to put the ships back down or pick them up.  Unless the tool will not physically fit where it needs to go we normally hover it.  And even then we are more apt to remove a model from a base and hover than to remove the whole base from the play mat.  There is so much that can go wrong with either method though that you can't expect exactness and you'll have to get used to just letting things go a bit.. coughsquadronmovementcough :) or you'll end up being not much fun to play with.

That being said, don't let someone take advantage of you.. or try to take advantage of someone else.  Communicate and be as fair as you can be.

There are times with the need for the most exactness possible that we will try to carefully mark and remove everything but that kind of care takes time.. lots of time.

Yeah, I have to admit that even when we've marked ship and squadron locations with corners and tokens, something ends up getting bumped in the game anyway (usually a ship at least once in the game, and of course squadrons).

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I've often thought it's silly that a move is "locked in" when you put the measuring device in the slots on the ship but if you put it on the table next to a ship even a millimetre away it "isn't locked" in at all.

In friendly games, within reason, we allow take backs. It's a game and whilst it's disappointing to lose its not really important compared to both players enjoying themselves and the number of moves taken back is not great.

Edited by Soviet65

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13 minutes ago, Soviet65 said:

I've often thought it's silly that a move is "locked in" when you put the measuring device in the slots on the ship but if you put it on the table next to a ship even a millimetre away it "isn't locked" in at all.

In friendly games, within reason, we allow take backs. It's a game and whilst it's disappointing to lose its not really important compared to both players enjoying themselves and the number of moves taken back is not great.

This is perfectly legal though.

 

you just can’t pick the ship up, to see it’s final position, wide-*** swing and all, until it’s locked though.

 So there is always perspective guesswork until the very end.

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3 hours ago, Soviet65 said:

In friendly games, within reason, we allow take backs. It's a game and whilst it's disappointing to lose its not really important compared to both players enjoying themselves and the number of moves taken back is not great.

@SgtDurandal and I have found, that even in friendly games, takebacks are tough. They lead to a chain of second guesses and hard feelings. 

Take back of ship movement, after you have picked it up and see where it will land, breaks the game IMO. A big part of movement is risk assessment and making that decision to lock it in and let the chips fall where they may. There is uncertainty. 

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If there isn't much doubt where it'll end up and/or it is too much hassle to remove a lot of different things, rather than just hovering the tool I tend to work together with my opponent, so that the tool is resting on the cardboard of a ship in between the initial and final positions of the moving ship. One of will put a finger on the template on top of that other ship to keep it steady and in place, while the other place the part of the tool with the notch straight on top of the moving ship's corner (where it would otherwise have been locked in if it was directly on the playing surface) and then moves the ship to do the same at is final position.

It's far more precise than just hovering in the air and takes no time; and much less than it does describing it in text. :)

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We also get a lot of mileage out of just rocking the interfering mini to the side, leaving it's far corners on the ground while sliding the ruler underneath the near side. That has almost zero impact on game space or state.

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