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Commander Kaine

FFG make Wedge's ability bull's eye arc only!

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Look, FFG, I'm not gonna say he is broken without sufficient information on pricing...

But let's compare with Soontir, the other non force sensitive top-dog from OT ships. 

In 1.0, both of their abilities were pretty strong, but the chassis of Wedge left something to be desired. Later, with the advent of bombs and mega ordnance, the Interceptor fell out of favor as well, not even AT could keep it viable. 
But let's look at their abilities in a vacuum. There is just too much stuff going on that we don't know about. 

As of their 1.0 version, they are both pretty strong, but roughly equal. Soontir could be used to modify attack or defense, Wedge just works offensively, but much stronger math wise. It's a fair balance between those two, if we don't look at how atrocious X-Wings were on release. 

Now, in 2.0, FFG shows us that design wise, they are trying to remove abilities that work too reliably. Almost all of the upgrades that provide powerful bonuses have heavy restrictions in terms of requirements. Look what became of FCS or Crackshot. (again, not a balance question, their price probably changed as well) 

Also, the X-Wing chassis, which was underwhelming in 1.0 is upgraded heavily. Luke seems to be a powerful ace on his on right (yay), and the ship has greatly increased capabilities. It is no longer an excuse (... a T65-x-cuse... sorry) to say that the chassis is holding the pilots back, so they need a bit of help. 

So, given how Soontir and most of the upgrades and abilities we have seen so far have changed their wording to provide their bonuses ONLY if the player is controlling the ship expertly, AND that the X-Wing is now a capable ship on its own... WHY WASN'T WEDGE CHANGED ACCORDING TO THIS PHILOSOPHY? 

Look. Wedge's ability is really strong. Put it in a number of other (better) ships in 1.0 and it becomes powerful immediately. price it well, and it becomes a top meta ship, especially at PS9 (I6). The reworked T65 is that better ship... 

I'm not saying that Wedge is broken... he could be insanely expensive, especially fully built. That's fair. 

It's just... Making such abilities is problematic, and something that 2.0 seems to go against. Why is this one pilot so much more powerful than the other things we have seen by now? What makes Wedge's ability more suited for all of its arc, than Soontir's? What is the justification behind this? What could it possibly be? 



 

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Just now, Rakaydos said:

Rebels are the "easy mode" faction for newbies- they probably have the LEAST bullseye related abilities.

Leave it to the maneuver-happy factions.

This makes no sense... Easy in the hands of equally skilled players is better. And it is frequently the excuse for game warping abilities, see Biggs. 

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2 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

This makes no sense... Easy in the hands of equally skilled players is better. And it is frequently the excuse for game warping abilities, see Biggs. 

Only if the skill ceiling of the easy faction is higher as the factions with higher skill floors. Consider Wedge ve a hypothetical bulseye wedge that removes 2 dice. The rebel wedge is easier, but the bulseye alternative is stronger... if you're skilled enough to use it at all.

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1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

Only if the skill ceiling of the easy faction is higher as the factions with higher skill floors. Consider Wedge ve a hypothetical bulseye wedge that removes 2 dice. The rebel wedge is easier, but the bulseye alternative is stronger... if you're skilled enough to use it at all.

Except 2E bullseye does nothing unless it’s tied to a specific EPT or pilot ability... so you only get the -1. 

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I am a doctor of entomology, not X-wing, so I could be completely off, but I think it has to do with the fact that his ability affects defense dice. If Wedge's ability was, "While attacking, roll one additional attack die." That's wildly more powerful than removing a defense die, and I could totally see that being limited to the bullseye arc. But taking one measly, unreliable defense die away...I mean, seems fair to me.

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3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Wedge actually has screen time. 

 

(BOOM, roasted) 

 

Okay, seriously, the tie interceptor also has better repositioning value than the X-wing, even with the X-wings new toys. 

Also, wedge only works on wedges attack, it’s not permanent.

git gud. 

So? It flies better, but has less health and no shields. That's not the point

How many times can you use a focus token? And it falls off at the end of the turn... How is that permanent? Oh, you were just saying a random, unrelated factoid about Wedge's ability, that in no way relates to the conversation. 

Git... smarter? 

2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

 

Thanks for the engaging argument that took the time to examine the situation. Truly, you show how welcoming these forums are, and you are not at all part of the problem. 
I would answer in greater detail, but I was floored by your argumentative techniques. How could I ever see it differently? I now fully agree with you. 

 

Just now, Rakaydos said:

Only if the skill ceiling of the easy faction is higher as the factions with higher skill floors. Consider Wedge ve a hypothetical bulseye wedge that removes 2 dice. The rebel wedge is easier, but the bulseye alternative is stronger... if you're skilled enough to use it at all.

The point is to make stuff less broken, not more... 

Wedge's ability is still pretty powerful, it doesn't need extra help. It's not like Soontir got twice as powerful, if he manages to catch you in arc. 

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3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Except 2E bullseye does nothing unless it’s tied to a specific EPT or pilot ability... so you only get the -1. 

I'm not sure what your point is. In my hypothetical, alternate-wedge has a pilot ability that removes 2 defense dice from a target inside his bullseye arc. This is stronger than normal wedge's 1 defense dice anywhere in foward arc, but harder to use.

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2 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I am a doctor of entomology, not X-wing, so I could be completely off, but I think it has to do with the fact that his ability affects defense dice. If Wedge's ability was, "While attacking, roll one additional attack die." That's wildly more powerful than removing a defense die, and I could totally see that being limited to the bullseye arc. But taking one measly, unreliable defense die away...I mean, seems fair to me.

Certainly @ficklegreendice would see it that way.  I mean, in that context, 60% of the time Wedge's ability does nothing every time.

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2 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Wedge's ability is still pretty powerful, it doesn't need extra help. It's not like Soontir got twice as powerful, if he manages to catch you in arc. 

Er, Soontier gets pretty close with the extra focus. Being able to double focus, focus evade, or focus on a bump are huge.

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6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s kind of refreshing to see some self-centered faction-conspiracy whining again.

It's nice to see some effortless, meaningless contribution that adds nothing to the conversation. I almost missed it. I put my points down. I think they are fairly reasonable. Why does Wedge's ability need his full arc, especially when that is something the design is moving away from. You don't have an answer, so you just troll... Badly. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Thanks for the engaging argument that took the time to examine the situation. Truly, you show how welcoming these forums are, and you are not at all part of the problem.   I would answer in greater detail, but I was floored by your argumentative techniques. How could I ever see it differently? I now fully agree with you. 

Would you have preferred the J. Jonah Jameson gif?  In all honesty, I believe I was doing you a favour by making a lighthearted joke.  However, if you would prefer some brutal honesty instead...

4 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

The point is to make stuff less broken, not more... 

...you have no way of knowing whether it is broken or not.  The points costs haven't been released.  99% of pilot cards, upgrades and abilities have not been released.  You have absolutely no point of reference for determining whether it is too powerful in 2nd Edition or not.  You're merely indulging in guesswork, assumptions and personal bias.  And even if it is very powerful in context, many players would much prefer to see the named pilots and ships from the original trilogy pilots to see much more table time, so from that perspective Wedge deserves a very powerful ability.

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There's a reason people would fly Wes, who denied tokens, over Wedge, who reduced agility by 1, in 1.0. His ability, while good, is not as strong as it might appear on paper. I doubt he's magically going to become broken in 2.0. His ability is technically a little stronger in 2.0, given it negates the range bonus  defense die for 0 agility ships now, but is otherwise pretty much identical.

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Just now, FTS Gecko said:

Would you have preferred the J. Jonah Jameson gif?  In all honesty, I believe I was doing you a favour by making a lighthearted joke.  However, if you would prefer some brutal honesty instead...

...you have no way of knowing whether it is broken or not.  The points costs haven't been released.  99% of pilot cards, upgrades and abilities have not been released.  You have absolutely no point of reference for determining whether it is too powerful in 2nd Edition or not.  You're merely indulging in guesswork, assumptions and personal bias.  And even if it is very powerful in context, many players would much prefer to see the named pilots and ships from the original trilogy pilots to see much more table time, so from that perspective Wedge deserves a very powerful ability.

Okay, now I throw back the ball to you, that's how it works... 

In which faction do all, except 1 of the named pilots of the OT belong? 

Also, please note, that I didn't say it was broken, and I did mention pricing. I said it is more powerful in a vacuum. And I said if it is priced expensive, it is fair... 

But making well known and fan favorite characters powerful was the reason I hated most of the Rebel expansions. And also disproportionately favors the Rebellion. Soontir is Wedge's imperial foil. 

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