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Seastan

The One Deck

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22 hours ago, Fingolfin Fate said:

Ok, not sold on Meneldor. Unique, yes, but I see three copies of the Haradrim twice there. I gather they are the pillars of sorts.

One question repeated, what do you think of Tactics hero Boromir in a Deck to Rule them All?

And one new: do you think the deck could still do the same with Steward and Test? I know there are some terrible treacheries, but the two copies of Test often not be at hand when these show up, or? Round one will often see you without the Spirit resource, I gather. Ok, won't bother with more...

Yes, the Haradrim are so good that's it's worth the downside of multiple uniques in those cases.

Boromir's still a good hero don't get me wrong, but my current feeling toward a Deck to Rule them All is that it needs sub-30 starting threat and high hero willpower. Boromir doesn't help with either.

Did you mean *without* Steward and Test? Depends what you mean by "do the same". Technically it could still beat all the quests, but I guess it would have a lower win rate. If I tally all the quests I would have lost but for the Test of Will in my hand vs the quests I would have won but for Vilya'ing into a Test of Will, the former wins out easily.

Getting Steward out with Vilya almost always means I get to play an ally from my hand that turn, so it isn't a huge loss of pace over directly putting a high cost ally into play with Vilya. And of course each turn afterward the advantage of playing the Steward grows. So I expect the win rate to go down if you cut Steward as well.

Edited by Seastan

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43 minutes ago, Seastan said:

Haha wait, you weren't offering criticism, yet I also came across as not taking your criticism well? 

I'll admit to having some emotional attachment to the deck, having spent months playing through nearly 100 quests with it. To have someone say their disappointed about it not having some quality that I never intended it to have was a little discouraging. 

The "Seastan's Boromir" as it's called had beaten the all the quests at the time, yes. Not only has that deck been errata'd, but there a lot more quests now, with several of them (Nightmare Nin-in-Eilph, Mount Doom, Nightmare Flight of the Stormcaller, Race Across Harad) being hard counters to its turtle-like approach to questing.

Not only would this mean a high starting threat, but you're giving up easy spirit access. I think this deck would have a terrible time at Return to Mirkwood.

What Gandalf offers to the Vilya archetype is greatly surpassed by Stargazer. So a cheaper hero (Awren) that can give you quick access to a Stargazer, as well as a deck built in such a way that Stargazer isn't strictly needed, performs better, in my experience.

 

Yes, I wasn't offering, yet you thought I was and took it rather poorly. Correct.

First, sorry if I did hurt your feelings. You are doing well. And thanks for the responses. But you have to see that your experience is just one of many. I am sure there are hundreds of people who can come up with a deck that beats them all, and have probably done so. The community here is so small, it should not even be considered a sample. Again, by that I do not want to diminish your deck-building prowess. I just feel there are so many ways. I for myself do not play all the quests, but my winning ratio is similar to what you have provided. I can hardly remember losing a quest, yet alone twice in a row. That said, I see beating all the quests (even the most specific ones) without ever changing a single card is a great success. And I congratulate. Still, when I glanced through the deck, there was nothing new to what had been in such a deck years ago, perhaps safe the Harradrim and the two heroins, who certainly seem a great pick.

Edited by Fingolfin Fate

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29 minutes ago, Seastan said:

Yes, the Haradrim are so good that's it's worth the downside of multiple uniques in those cases.

Boromir's still a good hero don't get me wrong, but my current feeling toward a Deck to Rule them All is that it needs sub-30 starting threat and high hero willpower. Boromir doesn't help with either.

Did you mean *without* Steward and Test? Depends what you mean by "do the same". Technically it could still beat all the quests, but I guess it would have a lower win rate. If a tally all the quests I would have lost but for the Test of Wil lin my have vs the quests I would have won but for Vilya'ing into a Test of Will, the former wins out easily.

Getting Steward out with Vilya almost always means I get to play an ally from my hand that turn, so it isn't a huge loss of pace over directly putting a high cost ally into play with Vilya. And of course each turn afterward the advantage of playing the Steward grows. So I expect the win rate to go down if you cut Steward as well.

Sorry, you replied before I could correct the typos. Yes, I meant without Steward and Test.

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1 hour ago, Fingolfin Fate said:

I am sure there are hundreds of people who can come up with a deck that beats them all, and have probably done so.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but by "beats them all" do you mean "beats most of them"? As in, not "the specific ones" you later congratulate me for beating? If so I agree. I think tons of people have a go-to deck that can beat "most" quests. There are many options for such a deck. But I'm not sure why it's relevant.

 

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8 hours ago, Fingolfin Fate said:

Any advanced chess player will probably play the game much better than you or me and win more games with the same deck because of the higher capacity for decision making.

I doubt this is true.  Any advanced chess player has great skill for projecting *deterministic* game outcomes, but this game is not deterministic.  I doubt their skill is transferrable at all, let alone easily.  Are there any grandmasters at all well known for their skill in non-abstract games?

For my part I'm very impressed with a "Deck to Rule Them All" that has actually gone through the work of ruling them all.  Maybe there are other deckbuilders and decks that could win them all, but until one of them actually does this deck holds a unique place.

And for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE don't try to discourage Seastan from spending so much time on a deck that's unlikely to produce crippling errata!

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@Fingolfin Fate You made yourself ridiculous. I don't know what you're trying to prove. But it seem to me that every sentence of your last post is wrong. Please learn to act respectfully when you want to speak and to walk away if something does not interest you (because none of use never have something interesting to say about something we don't care about).

I don't know if Seastan is trying to be the best player of LOTR. I personally do. But so far people often still believe that Seastan is the best player so I have to work harder ?

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6 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

I doubt this is true.  Any advanced chess player has great skill for projecting *deterministic* game outcomes, but this game is not deterministic.  I doubt their skill is transferrable at all, let alone easily.  Are there any grandmasters at all well known for their skill in non-abstract games? 

For my part I'm very impressed with a "Deck to Rule Them All" that has actually gone through the work of ruling them all.  Maybe there are other deckbuilders and decks that could win them all, but until one of them actually does this deck holds a unique place.

And for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE don't try to discourage Seastan from spending so much time on a deck that's unlikely to produce crippling errata!

Acquiring a high level of mastery also give you many transferable tools (concentration, ability to keep in mind many information among others) so I see a good chess player able to be way more powerful that his experience should granted him in MTG (and magic is kind of close to Lord of the Rings).

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44 minutes ago, Rouxxor said:

I don't know if Seastan is trying to be the best player of LOTR. I personally do. But so far people often still believe that Seastan is the best player so I have to work harder ?

Given the win-rate of the encounter deck on quests like Nightmare Escape, and more generally against many players in many quests, perhaps Sauron is in fact the best player... ?

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5 minutes ago, monkeyrama said:

Given the win-rate of the encounter deck on quests like Nightmare Escape, and more generally against many players in many quests, perhaps Sauron is in fact the best player... ?

That make sense ^^. Because of you I picture in my mind Sauron acting on the clip "I'm sexy and I know it"

Edited by Rouxxor

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On 5/25/2018 at 1:43 PM, Rouxxor said:

@Fingolfin Fate I don't know if Seastan is trying to be the best player of LOTR. I personally do. But so far people often still believe that Seastan is the best player so I have to work harder ?

May be the best deck-builder, not the best player, that is nearly impossible to quantify ?

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@Seastan

I don’t post on these boards much at all for reasons I won’t get into. I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate what you have done for the community through here, Ringsdb and the COTR podcast. I have been a listener since the very first episode and have enjoyed all the hosts. Having become a recent father and with all your educational and employment responsibilities, I am grateful for the time you invest into the game and the sharing of your inisights. I enjoy seeing your thought process for these various decks and the game in general. I play this game for fun and fun only. You have added to that immensely. Thank you.

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2 hours ago, 4n6gamer said:

@Seastan

I don’t post on these boards much at all for reasons I won’t get into. I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate what you have done for the community through here, Ringsdb and the COTR podcast. I have been a listener since the very first episode and have enjoyed all the hosts. Having become a recent father and with all your educational and employment responsibilities, I am grateful for the time you invest into the game and the sharing of your inisights. I enjoy seeing your thought process for these various decks and the game in general. I play this game for fun and fun only. You have added to that immensely. Thank you.

Thanks @4n6gamer, that means a lot! This is my main hobby and it's always been a pleasure to contribute to the community, even if those contributions are are getting to be more infrequent now with my new responsibilities you mentioned. But I would've stopped long ago if it weren't for supportive community members like yourself! Thanks for being a long-time listener of the podcast as well! 

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Okay. 

Wow!

Congratulations!

I've not read your deck itself Seastan because I don't want the ideas to affect my own deck. However I did read the success rate. Wow.

 

To be able to design a deck to beat ALL  scenarios, not just most, is a truly fantastic feat. Then for them to be nightmare scenarios oh my goodness what a massive achievement.....but...... then to beat almost all of them in 2 tries,  WOW!

 

To me personally the scope of this achievement is huge. Truly well done!!!!

I am so impressed.

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6 hours ago, sappidus said:

I know this isn't the right one, but it made me giggle:

Here a Stan, there a Stan, everywhere I See a Stan…!

While I suspected it wasn't correct is actually kinda my favourite :) is what I read in my head. 

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