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Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun

SOLO, Confirmation of Imperial Army Units

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6 minutes ago, ABXY said:

I really like Woody, and I'm sure he's got solid integrity... 

... but do you think he was primed/briefed to talk up Alden Ehrenreich? 

;)

Seems he went off-script, I don't think he is supposed to be talking about anything other than Rampart.

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56 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Sigh...  Oh well.   At least they look better than the stupid outfits WEG gave them.

By "stupid outfits" you mean the AT-ST pilot uniform with the officers armour plate added?

Because the new outfit is basically the same with a gas mask and cape.

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15 minutes ago, Indy_com said:

By "stupid outfits" you mean the AT-ST pilot uniform with the officers armour plate added?

Because the new outfit is basically the same with a gas mask and cape.

Yeah, that's pretty much what every depiction of them I've seen has shown.  And the Gas mask and cape could be the specialized equipment for fighting on that front/planet, not standard issue equipment. 

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52 minutes ago, Indy_com said:

By "stupid outfits" you mean the AT-ST pilot uniform with the officers armour plate added?

Because the new outfit is basically the same with a gas mask and cape.

Most of the art I remember didn't give them the chest plate. They got a jumpsuit and a helmet.   

And yes, it still looks stupid.   Visually I don't like them.    

I still am interested as to where these troopers fit in, as Stormtroopers have been portrayed as generic troops in the new canon stories I have read.

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange

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4 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Most of the art I remember didn't give them the chest plate. They got a jumpsuit and a helmet.   

I've seen it both ways, usually as a visual identfier. Mundane infantry had just a helmet "special" troopers had the chest plate.

4 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

 

I still am interested as to where these troopers fit in, as Stormtroopers have been portrayed as generic troops in the new canon stories I have read.

Now that is the question!

Thematically the answer is of course "When we need to show faces and humanize the soldiers in question." Han, Beckett, and so on are humans we need to sympathize with, so faces. The mooks are expenable baddies, so gas masks, stormtrooper helmets, and whatever else we can come up.

Where these dudes fall into the order of battle and such is a bigger question.

For starters Solo is what? Roughly a decade before ANH? So theres some time for military realignment to replace these guys with Stormtroopers.

But also I suspect that when we watch the movie and get supporting fiction we'll start to see where the Imperial Military stands. We're seeing a battle on Mimban, so what's going on will allow for some extrapolation, and figure out who these guys are and what they do.

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14 minutes ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

Actually I would say their depiction here is quite close to what West End Games gave them. 

I did mention that all I remember from the old weg stuff was the army trooper just being in a jumpsuit with a bucket, no armour or anything.   

I may very well be misremembering, as you know, I felt the old weg RPG was absolute dreck - so was the wotc stuff.   

Personally, I like the whole idea of the imperial army being the faceless stormtroopers.   The ubiquitous stormtrooper appeals to ME.  If there is a good story reason for these mudtroopers - like they are disposable beings meant to be fodder, then I can accept them.

I feel the imperial army trooper only came into being because of someone took line from the Emperor about a Legion of his best troops and seeing stormtroopers, and made up lesser troops.   But, until Solo these people only ever showed up in the RPG.  

When it comes down to it, what role do they play that a stormtrooper can't?   Hoping Solo will tell me.  

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20 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I may very well be misremembering, as you know, I felt the old weg RPG was absolute dreck - so was the wotc stuff.   

Again here you are entitled to your opinion but it bares remembering that West End Games is responsible for the genesis of 80% of original Canon that became EU and at at least 75% of X - Wings and other FFG early material is derived from said EU.

From the armament of the every fighter in the movies and books, to the names of their pilots and Bounty Hunter ships, to the classes of warships including Victorys, Dreadnaughts, and Interdictors.  And that’s just the very tip of the Sarlacc.

Even the head of Marvel gave them a shout out a few weeks ago.

Your mileage may vary of course.

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Could be that stormtroopers are the mainline infantry for the Imperial Navy (which has a larger influence and interaction with the galaxy, thus why stormtroopers are more commonly seen), while these soldiers are the mainline infantry for the Imperial Army.

Assuming that the Army and Navy are considered two separate entities in the Empire.

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5 minutes ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

Again here you are entitled to your opinion but it bares remembering that West End Games is responsible for the genesis of 80% of original Canon that became EU and at at least 75% of X - Wings and other FFG early material is derived from said EU.

From the armament of the every fighter in the movies and books, to the names of their pilots and Bounty Hunter ships, to the classes of warships including Victorys, Dreadnaughts, and Interdictors.  And that’s just the very tip of the Sarlacc.

Even the head of Marvel gave them a shout out a few weeks ago.

Your mileage may vary of course.

For many it brings back nostalgia.    I underatand that the old stuff helped build a lot of what we have.   It also led to a lot of garbage.   Just like some of the old marvel comics, some stuff was really bad and offensive.   I doubt Black Panther would have been as loves with a character being known as Man-Ape like he used to be in the comics.  Changing it can lead to better things.   I'm not saying that throwing everything away is the answer either.  I think Rebels handled much of the old references very well.

I admit that the old weg stuff showed off a good way of building a world.  What bothers me is the cultish fanaticism that people have towards it.   The mechanics were not that great and lead to overpowererd force users.    

I really don't have any nostalgia for that, kotor, and much of the old EU.   I know the weg stuff was important to you - you worked on it.   But, I never drank that kool-aid.

I am sick of seeing everything compared to the old weg stuff, so much that the new RPG (and its creators) have not been given as much credit as it or they deserve.   

Enjoying the old stuff is fine, having it shoved down my throat is not.

Back to Solo, lets see WHAT they do with it.   Perhaps I will like the idea.  Perhaps mudtroopers are the utter washouts of the empire , being put to the use of draining an enemies ammo.  

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9 hours ago, ABXY said:

I really like Woody, and I'm sure he's got solid integrity... 

... but do you think he was primed/briefed to talk up Alden Ehrenreich? 

;)

Yeah, I don't think you let Woody do press unless you are ready for him to say just about anything he wants. He is a good actor so who knows, but he seems to be responding to the "Ehrenreich can't act" rumors with true annoyance. Also these guys put a lot of time and effort into their movies. Of course they have a bias opinion and think the movie is better than what an outside observer or the catering guy may think.

 

@Derpzilla88 I'm not sure it's that kind of movie. Veers got his outfit because they had extra snowtrooper armor lying around. It's more of "hey, this looks cool, why don't we try this" rather than some deep institutional discussion about a fictional government.  In Solo, they are just digging through old props and saying "hey, this looks cool, why don't we try this".

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5 minutes ago, Mep said:

@Derpzilla88 I'm not sure it's that kind of movie. Veers got his outfit because they had extra snowtrooper armor lying around. It's more of "hey, this looks cool, why don't we try this" rather than some deep institutional discussion about a fictional government.  In Solo, they are just digging through old props and saying "hey, this looks cool, why don't we try this".

Right, and I'm not expecting any kind of explanation for the difference in the movie either. As far as the general audience cares or will know, these are still "mudtroopers" as the toy line and some other material has already named them.

I'm more theorizing on what the post-Solo explanation for these troopers might be if they ever get reused as "Imperial Army Units" in new EU material.

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4 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

When it comes down to it, what role do they play that a stormtrooper can't?   Hoping Solo will tell me.  

 

4 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Could be that stormtroopers are the mainline infantry for the Imperial Navy...

... while these soldiers are the mainline infantry for the Imperial Army.

Assuming that the Army and Navy are considered two separate entities in the Empire.

 

Or it could be like the distinction between the Heer branch of the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS. 

 

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When it comes down to it, what role do they play that a stormtrooper can't?   Hoping Solo will tell me.

Probably so, or at least provide sufficient context to work something out.

 

This is actually why I really dislike that recent newEU novel that, for whatever stupid reason, attempts to humanize Stormtroopers.

Keep their background shadowy and enigmatic, and there's plenty of possible answers a fan can assemble for questions like yours that aren't disproven by the source material.

Make them real people with lives, hopes, and dreams of their own... and they become just another grunt.

But I guess some things don't change. NewEU, OldEU, not all authors are up to the challenge of working with an existing universe and story structure. Even the Flanneled One totally misses his own GD point these days...

 

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6 hours ago, Mep said:

Yeah, I don't think you let Woody do press unless you are ready for him to say just about anything he wants. He is a good actor so who knows, but he seems to be responding to the "Ehrenreich can't act" rumors with true annoyance. Also these guys put a lot of time and effort into their movies. Of course they have a bias opinion and think the movie is better than what an outside observer or the catering guy may think.

Always best to take an actor's opinion with a grain of salt.  Most of the time they don't see the final film until we do, if even then.  The reaction shots to the Force Awakens trailer were so fun because for much of the cast it was the first time they actually got to see themselves holding a lit lightsaber.  Boyega was also really proud of some of the Last Jedi content that he found out wasn't in the movie at the same time everyone else did.

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6 hours ago, ABXY said:

Or it could be like the distinction between the Heer branch of the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS. 

From the existing portrayal of the Stormtrooper Corps in the films (who are always acting in concert with the Imperial Navy), I would say it is more like the difference between the US Marine Corps and the US Army.

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At the moment, based on existing material(though I've no idea how much of it, if any, is nuCanon), the Stormtrooper Corps is within the Army, but since that doesn't really seem like a detail that's somehow vital to their organisational character or screen presence, I don't think many folk would care if they retconned it. They don't need to of course, they can both be different sub-units of the Army, but frankly it doesn't matter what the explanation they end up going with is providing A: the Imperial Army, with an appearance like that seen in Solo, become part of nuCanon as their own thing rather than just another oddly specific subtype of Stormtrooper, and B: they're still a thing during the GCW.

I will happily collect a whole army of these guys for Legion if those two things turn out to be the case.

Edited by Yodhrin

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Remember based on the movies, and originals at that, Stormtroopers stand around talking about stuff while men in bathrobes sneak past.  

Also done in Rogue One.   

Scout troopers were loitering around on Endor.

One part of the new canon I remember humanizing a stormtrooper was talking about how she, yes she - deal with it, felt like a completely differrent person in the armour.   

Stormtroopers have never been portrayed on film as elite troops to me.   

Personally I like the idea that all stormtroopers look the same, some can be ‘keystone cop’ level and some will be competant - you never know till the blaster bolts fly.

 

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10 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

This is actually why I really dislike that recent newEU novel that, for whatever stupid reason, attempts to humanize Stormtroopers.

Keep their background shadowy and enigmatic, and there's plenty of possible answers a fan can assemble for questions like yours that aren't disproven by the source material.

Make them real people with lives, hopes, and dreams of their own... and they become just another grunt.

But I guess some things don't change. NewEU, OldEU, not all authors are up to the challenge of working with an existing universe and story structure. Even the Flanneled One totally misses his own GD point these days...

 

 

Have to disagree with you there.  I'd rather have villains than some mysterious enigmatic badies that are evil for evil's sake.  Probably one reason why I like the Clone Wars so much was it provided a background for Storm/Clone Troopers, and gave them a face and personalities.  Rebels was immensely disappointing because they didn't build on that, but instead went back to stormtroopers as faceless, and incompetent villains.

 

As for complaints about separate Imperial Army/Stormtrooper Corps, I don't have a problem with it, even if stormtroopers are your average grunt.  The US military currently possesses two functional land armies in the form of the Army and the Marine Corps.  Palpatine has been shown to be incredibly paranoid, and very leery of giving too much power to any person or organization.  The ISB and Imperial Intelligence both echo this idea, as does the Empire's confusing array of Moffs, Grand Moffs, Fleet/High/Grand Admirals, etc.  Perhaps the Imperial Army and Stormtrooper Corps are another manifestation of that.  The IA could have been started out during the Clone Wars as a place for non-Clone Volunteers, but has morphed into a primarily mechanized,/armored force with some infantry,  while the Stormtrooper Corps has been slowly shrunk down to the point where it's mostly an infantry force with some armor.

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3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Remember based on the movies, and originals at that, Stormtroopers stand around talking about stuff while men in bathrobes sneak past.  

Also done in Rogue One.   

Scout troopers were loitering around on Endor.

One part of the new canon I remember humanizing a stormtrooper was talking about how she, yes she - deal with it, felt like a completely differrent person in the armour.   

Stormtroopers have never been portrayed on film as elite troops to me.   

Personally I like the idea that all stormtroopers look the same, some can be ‘keystone cop’ level and some will be competant - you never know till the blaster bolts fly.

 

Ehhh, I don't buy the idea that Stormtroopers are generic troops based on them performing garrison duties a lot of the time when we see them on-screen. I don't know that I'd call them "elite" in the sense of "these guys are Navy Seals times the SAS times Chuck Norris", but they don't have to be bog-standard either.

The Death Star, Jedha and Scarrif, Endor, Lothal, Hoth, even Tatooine etc, when you actually go back and think about all of them, in the vast majority of cases when Stormtroopers are deployed - even on mundane duties - it's either at a top secret installation or project, in defense of a resource or location vital to a top secret installation or project, at the behest of/for the protection of a high ranking Imperial official or officer, or as an assault force under the command of a high ranking Imperial official or officer. They occasionally show up without that sort of thing being made explicit, but the vast majority of the time they're either guarding something specific, or carrying out the orders of a bigwig.

That leaves plenty of room for them to fill, in US terms, the "veteran Army-through-Marine Corps" range of competency, while the Imperial Army regulars encompass National Guard/reservists-through-basic Army sort of force quality. We see the Stormtroopers most often on the screen because the screen tends to focus on the various people and places they're more likely to be around - the Imperial Army garrison out scratching their backsides in Mos Craphole don't really merit a role when you have Vader rolling around with regiments of Sandtroopers eh :P In Solo though, you have exactly the kind of situation we'd expect to see a more "disposable" kind of trooper: a drawn-out trench war.

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