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Arkanta974

Imperial Swarm got some love for the V2

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Nah man, it'd be like GW prohibiting the use of older models in a tournament, when a newer version of that model has been released. Functionally identical, but not new enough.

It's just actually mind-blowing that people are cool with it. FFG can cram their tournaments where they'll fit best.

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27 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Nah man, it'd be like GW prohibiting the use of older models in a tournament, when a newer version of that model has been released. Functionally identical, but not new enough.

It's just actually mind-blowing that people are cool with it. FFG can cram their tournaments where they'll fit best.

I see it as FFG trying to keep the playing field level; from what we're told, so far, the Empire would make out better than other factions if using old dials was allowed on ships that had no dial changes.  The TIE and the Lambda are the first ships that come to mind that I've heard of where the dial hasn't changed.  Would it be fair to give the Imperial players an advantage in terms of investment over other factions, effectively making it cheaper to be an effective Imperial player than Scum or Rebel? 

As a player who most often prefers to fly Imperial, I don't think this would be fair, even though to the best of my current understanding it would favor me.  For casual games, have fun with as many old dials as you like.  In a competitive event, the field should be level for players of all factions, so from that stand point, I don't see FFG screwing anybody.  They're making a logical business decision which also supports a fair playing field for Scum, Rebel and Imperial players.

This may be a generous way of looking at it, and FFG may truly only have profit in mind, but I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and keep a positive attitude toward a game I enjoy playing.  As soon as I start getting bitter over design decisions, it tends to suck the fun out of the game, too.

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9 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

Nah man, it'd be like GW prohibiting the use of older models in a tournament, when a newer version of that model has been released. Functionally identical, but not new enough.

It's just actually mind-blowing that people are cool with it. FFG can cram their tournaments where they'll fit best.

if you have a problem with the enforcement of rules in a competitive environment, don't expect to be allowed to compete. Pretty simple. I would not want to participate in a 'scene' where I paid/traveled to compete and an opponent is not held to play within the established publicly displayed rule set.

On a personal level, if an older version is basically identical in operation to the newer version, wouldn't bother me a bit.

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57 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

if you have a problem with the enforcement of rules in a competitive environment, don't expect to be allowed to compete. Pretty simple. I would not want to participate in a 'scene' where I paid/traveled to compete and an opponent is not held to play within the established publicly displayed rule set.

On a personal level, if an older version is basically identical in operation to the newer version, wouldn't bother me a bit.

So are you alerting the TO if your swarm playing opponent pulls out old dials, or not?

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13 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

How do people read a comment like this and think "Yep, that sounds like a scene I want to be part of!"

Not having a go at you personally my friend, just the general attitude of "your cardboard is the wrong colour, you can't play with us!"

Your cards don't look official enough is another theme for official events.  ?
Don't mix the rules in place to sell expansions to players with that the community actually cares about. I have seen people allowing dial apps, ignoring missing cards and finding an damage deck for your opponent, because he left his at home. 

But in this context it does not matter for the official answer, because that's indeed only official cards, no self-printing and no 3rd party dials. And now no 1st edition dials as well. Which btw is a reasonable rule, because not all dials are identical and a lot of TOs don't play themselves X-Wing or are knowing X-Wing only as good as Alex and thus don't know out of their head which dials changed and which did not. It becomes a mess when you allow first edition dials to be used when most people will not remember which ones changed and which did not. So just downright banning all 1st edition dials is the right move to do. Individual TOs and players who actually know enough about the game to make proper calls might ignore the FFG rules anyway. 

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12 hours ago, Arschbombe said:

So based on what's been revealed so far, I think we have lost both Dark Curse and Backstabber in 2.0.  Iden Versio has Curse's art and Valen has Backstabber's.

From the  thread on generics and cardboard :

TIE Fighter :

    Mauler Mithel - (Crush the Rebellion) While you perfo rm an attack at attack range 1, roll 1 additional attack die ____________________________________
    Gideon Hask - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Del Meeko - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Howlrunner - (Crush the Rebellion) While a friendly ship at range 0-1 performs a primary attack, that ship may reroll 1 attack die.
    Scourge Skutu - (Crush the Rebellion) While you ______________________ ______________
    Night Beast (core)- (The Future of Star Wars Youtube)
    Valen Rudor – (Worlds Display Case)
    Iden Versio (core)- (X Wing Seco n d Edition) Before a Friendly TIE/ln fighter at range 0-1 would suffer 1 or more da mage, you may spend 1 [Energy].  If you do, prevent that damage.
    Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Black Squadron Pilot - (X Wing 2.0 Teaser Trailer)
    Academy Pilot – (Worlds Demo Lie Stream)

 

What about Youngster or Wampa? 

I like the battlefront characters, but I also kinda want Youngster and Wampa...

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20 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

It becomes a mess when you allow first edition dials to be used when most people will not remember which ones changed and which did not.

It's just two, right? How hard would it be to put that in the official rules: Players may use 1st edition dials for TIE fighters and the Lambda shuttle.

I dunno, it just speaks volumes to me about the attitude of FFG and the players that something like this (banning accurate, official FFG product because it's not new enough) is even proposed, let alone accepted by the wider community. Not the place for me at all!

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47 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

What about Youngster or Wampa?

I knew Iden Versio was a battlefront character, but I didn't know Del Meeko and Gideon Hask were. 

We had 10 unique TF pilots. If they keep that limit, then it seems only 6 will survive the transition as 4 have been replaced by Valen and the BF 2 characters.  Four of the 6 have been revealed.  So the question is who the final 2 are.  Gundark, Wampa, Youngster or Chaser?  My bet would be Youngster and Wampa because they actually got used in 1.0.

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2 minutes ago, Arschbombe said:

I knew Iden Versio was a battlefront character, but I didn't know Del Meeko and Gideon Hask were. 

We had 10 unique TF pilots. If they keep that limit, then it seems only 6 will survive the transition as 4 have been replaced by Valen and the BF 2 characters.  Four of the 6 have been revealed.  So the question is who the final 2 are.  Gundark, Wampa, Youngster or Chaser?  My bet would be Youngster and Wampa because they actually got used in 1.0.

Del is a dirty traitor, and Hask is what an imperial special forces agent should be like. I'm getting a semi, just thinking about him. 

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TIE Swarm was the first list I ever flew in X-Wing.  With Howlrunner, Backstabber, and Obsidian Squadron pilots, it was a load of fun and taught me how to fly in formation effectively. 

I am not so sure it’ll be like the old days with 6-8 TIE Swarms being the great boogie man they were in waves 1-3 of first edition.  The TIE Phantom took care of that for the most part. 

I am more inclined to think it will be more like Vader/Whisper/Insert Int 6 pilot here + Howlrunner mini-swarms that’ll do the best in the early days.

However, my first 10 games of Second Edition will be as many TIE fighters and the rules will allow. Just for kicks!

Edited by EvilEd209

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48 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

It's just two, right? How hard would it be to put that in the official rules: Players may use 1st edition dials for TIE fighters and the Lambda shuttle.

I dunno, it just speaks volumes to me about the attitude of FFG and the players that something like this (banning accurate, official FFG product because it's not new enough) is even proposed, let alone accepted by the wider community. Not the place for me at all!

It's more than just two.  For casual play do whatever, but at a tournament requiring the current dials is a good call.  Otherwise you're shifting the burden to every other player to know what dials have changed and which ones haven't, and there is no way that doesn't get messy.

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15 hours ago, Arschbombe said:

So based on what's been revealed so far, I think we have lost both Dark Curse and Backstabber in 2.0.  Iden Versio has Curse's art and Valen has Backstabber's.

From the  thread on generics and cardboard :

TIE Fighter :

    Mauler Mithel - (Crush the Rebellion) While you perfo rm an attack at attack range 1, roll 1 additional attack die ____________________________________
    Gideon Hask - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Del Meeko - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Howlrunner - (Crush the Rebellion) While a friendly ship at range 0-1 performs a primary attack, that ship may reroll 1 attack die.
    Scourge Skutu - (Crush the Rebellion) While you ______________________ ______________
    Night Beast (core)- (The Future of Star Wars Youtube)
    Valen Rudor – (Worlds Display Case)
    Iden Versio (core)- (X Wing Seco n d Edition) Before a Friendly TIE/ln fighter at range 0-1 would suffer 1 or more da mage, you may spend 1 [Energy].  If you do, prevent that damage.
    Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (Crush the Rebellion)
    Black Squadron Pilot - (X Wing 2.0 Teaser Trailer)
    Academy Pilot – (Worlds Demo Lie Stream)

 

I'm gonna rage so hard if they dropped dark curse and backstabber...  How am I going to run black squadron if they drop all the named black squadron pilots!?!?

Braggadocios Baron....? If you're gonna steal a black squadron pilot, at least lable his call sign!!! ****, Darth Vader is labeled as Black Leader!

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I think generic swarms will still be quite powerful. I flew an 8 TIE swarm through the heydays of PalpAces, Dengaroo, NymGar, and all those other horrible metas of the past and the swarm could still hold its own. Dropping down to 6 TIE swarm should still do well, but man, you have to practice so much! 

I think the go-to easy win Imp list will be Deci-vader, personally.

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3 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

I'm gonna rage so hard if they dropped dark curse and backstabber...  How am I going to run black squadron if they drop all the named black squadron pilots!?!?

At the risk of poking a plot-hole - have DS-61's pilots been (re) named in the newer canon books and comics?

At the same time, I agree losing Backstabber or Mithel - Vader's literal left- and right-hand men during the battle of Yavin - would be rather annoying.

 

 

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On 5/9/2018 at 7:53 AM, Vineheart01 said:

i actually wouldnt say they got nerfed via crackshot since defense isnt as concrete anymore either.

Evade not adding a result is huuuuuuge, pretty much makes it useless on 2agi ships and virtually useless on 1agi

Useless in 2 agility? Really... So how many times do you roll 2 evade on 2 dice to qualify it as useless? Someone check that man's dice, they are clearly loaded. Check the math it's still good on 2 agility, just not as good.

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20 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

How do people read a comment like this and think "Yep, that sounds like a scene I want to be part of!"

Not having a go at you personally my friend, just the general attitude of "your cardboard is the wrong colour, you can't play with us!"

It was changed to help the colour blind, I play with a colour blind player and he has to ask me or someone else what colour a move is for ships he does not have memorized. In a tournament setting I am sure he would prefer to know your manouver then just take your word on it. 

The change was made for a real reason, stop being a **** about it.

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Plus, I'm not sure how you can really end up in a situation where you're short of new edition dials:

  • You need the new base insert to play in any sort of competitive event. This is something that's pretty much unarguable, because it comes with stuff marked on it (mid-point, bullseye, some added auxiliary arcs) that are not on the current bit of cardboard.
  • To get said new base insert 'officially', you need to get it in an FFG pack of some kind (core set, expansion, conversion pack).
  • All these sources contain as many new dials as they do base inserts.

 

So it's not so much a case of "we ban people who won't shell out for 2e dials" as "If you've got the bits to use the ship at all, we know you also have the new dial, so why aren't you using it?".

It's frankly a lot more understandable than the response to the Force Awakens core set damage deck, and I frankly found that one annoying.

  • FFG produced a new damage deck which is less broken in the way it affects some ships with certain upgrades more or less than others. Use it.
  • I personally feel they should have insisted on the new deck but also made it available for purchase independently of the newer core set.

 

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On 5/9/2018 at 3:16 PM, ficklegreendice said:

pft, the crackshot nerf ain't nothing compared to all the indirect buffs the swarm got. i.e:

1.) bomb nerf (activation bomb before dial reveal, ACTION bombs DEAD)

2.) regen nerf

3.) turrets DEAD

4.) autothruster removal (now a soft PTL for interceptors)

5.) evade and defensive mod stacking nerf

6.) reinforce nerf

etc.

 

don't hear rebels making any sort of row about all of that, but I guess they're too busy celebrating the "almighty" X-wing buff of +1 hull and a barrel-roll ?

Wait for it, it will come when the game is released and they realize where the problem is.

of course we don’t know if the pricing will revert us to 4 X-Wings for 200 pts or if it will stay at 5. 

If it stays at 5, i feel quite confident they could take on an 8 Tie Swarm through sheer attack power and beefiness.

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14 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

So are you alerting the TO if your swarm playing opponent pulls out old dials, or not?

At my FLGS, I am the TO.  I would not allow 1st edition dials at an event that is 2nd edition, store champs or higher, especially if the rules don't allow for it. They may, you know.  Just like you can use a rebel dial to fly a scum y-wing due to the dials being identical.

 If I was playing in a event and an opponent pulled out old dials, I would let the TO know and also let them know that I was ok with it assuming I could recognize that the dials were the same as there 2nd edition counterparts, again, depending on what the . I'd do this because I would want my games to be legit.

After giving this a little thought, I think I may start bringing along spare tie fighter and lambda dials to loan out in either scenario.

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47 minutes ago, Arkanta974 said:

Alright after the live :

Lambda + Sloane + Ciena = Best thing for the swarm !

Now I can wait to play Lambda + tie swarm ! (and tie v1...)

So happy ! :D

Yes; for now it looks like having a support ship is gonna be the best way to run Imperial lists.

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8 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

well, "support" ship

captain Feroph will be a perfectly fine "punch you in the face" kind of ship before he even gets to supporting

I prefer to stay fluff : Lambda with tie fighter for escort ! ;)

 

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