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Cubanboy

One last ver 1.0 FAQ for Legacy formats?

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I have a weird question, currently there are a ton of other really fun legacy formats for XWing 1.0, I know 2.0 is hitting hard this year but I really hope we get to see an FAQ for 1.0 before the end, probably not as it would steal from ongoing development. am thinking mainly about HOTAC / Epic / First order Scenarios and a few other things that need some help from an official FAQ.

I know a lot of groups will cater to whatever custom weird rules people come up with but it would be nice to have a uniformed standard.

any thoughts ?

Edited by Cubanboy

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I wish there was an easy way to go ahead and roll out the mobile arc for all turrets. But unless you have multiple Shadowcasters, it would be really tough to keep track of if you’re running more than one Turret.

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I hope they do, we've still got a competitive season of store champs, nationals and the European and North American Championships and I don't want to play in this meta until then, even if Wave XIV makes an impact. The end of first edition means they can risk some nerfs/errata without a ton of playtesting as it ultimately won't have long term effects.

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Last 1.0 FAQ should just ban TLT and Harpoons. That would be good enough to make it last and be fun. They couldnt even make the cut in 2.0. Just get rid of em. Any repercussions from not having them will be better than anything we have now.

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13 hours ago, jwilliamson12 said:

I wish there was an easy way to go ahead and roll out the mobile arc for all turrets. But unless you have multiple Shadowcasters, it would be really tough to keep track of if you’re running more than one Turret.

Here’s what I always wish they would have done. It’s easier to explain if you play along with me:

1. Go take a large stand with a large cardboard base in it. 

2. Put a second cardboard base on top of the other one. 

3. See how you can spin that second base around in different positions?

Thats what I would have liked. They could have easily released a turret upgrade pack that basically included a handful of cardboard templates in the shape of an arc with a ring at the end, just the right size to slot on top of your regular bases. Rotate it to the appropriate quadrant and you’re good to go!

But now we’re getting 2.0, which is way better, so I’m happy. :)

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11 minutes ago, wurms said:

Last 1.0 FAQ should just ban TLT and Harpoons. That would be good enough to make it last and be fun. They couldnt even make the cut in 2.0. Just get rid of em. Any repercussions from not having them will be better than anything we have now.

Nah I say un-errata everything. Jumps , Biggs, palp, X/7s, tie phantoms.

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1 hour ago, Herowannabe said:

Here’s what I always wish they would have done. It’s easier to explain if you play along with me:

1. Go take a large stand with a large cardboard base in it. 

2. Put a second cardboard base on top of the other one. 

3. See how you can spin that second base around in different positions?

Thats what I would have liked. They could have easily released a turret upgrade pack that basically included a handful of cardboard templates in the shape of an arc with a ring at the end, just the right size to slot on top of your regular bases. Rotate it to the appropriate quadrant and you’re good to go!

But now we’re getting 2.0, which is way better, so I’m happy. :)

"Keyhole" token is what I've been calling that hypothetical piece, and I have also been a fan of that idea! 

It was pointed out to me by another player that such an arrangement would be far too easy to bump out of position while moving ships. Of course it could have just gotten a free move with every maneuver anyways...

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1 minute ago, nitrobenz said:

"Keyhole" token is what I've been calling that hypothetical piece, and I have also been a fan of that idea! 

It was pointed out to me by another player that such an arrangement would be far too easy to bump out of position while moving ships. Of course it could have just gotten a free move with every maneuver anyways...

Or if it was simply locked to quadrants like the Shadowcaster is. If it gets bumped a little you just move it back and like it up with the edge of the base. 

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2 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Here’s what I always wish they would have done. It’s easier to explain if you play along with me:

1. Go take a large stand with a large cardboard base in it. 

2. Put a second cardboard base on top of the other one. 

3. See how you can spin that second base around in different positions?

Thats what I would have liked. They could have easily released a turret upgrade pack that basically included a handful of cardboard templates in the shape of an arc with a ring at the end, just the right size to slot on top of your regular bases. Rotate it to the appropriate quadrant and you’re good to go!

But now we’re getting 2.0, which is way better, so I’m happy. :)

Unfortunately, a front firing arc is less than 90 degrees, and the mobile arc pointing sideways is more. This means that the you can't measure firing arc quatrants with this method. 

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Absolutely. I'll help compile things that are way out of line. 

 

Like the Sheathipede. Number one most awful game balance decision ever. Remove astromech slot. Fenn Ray PS = 7. 

The Ghost is most annoying. Turret should need to be equipped to the docked ship. 

TLT adds: "defender rolls 1 additional green die if at R3". 

Reinforce: "if an enemy ability or upgrade interacts with evade tokens, they may treat your reinforce token as if it was an evade token."

 

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4 minutes ago, FrightfulCommand said:

Absolutely. I'll help compile things that are way out of line. 

 

Like the Sheathipede. Number one most awful game balance decision ever. Remove astromech slot. Fenn Ray PS = 7. 

The Ghost is most annoying. Turret should need to be equipped to the docked ship. 

TLT adds: "defender rolls 1 additional green die if at R3". 

Reinforce: "if an enemy ability or upgrade interacts with evade tokens, they may treat your reinforce token as if it was an evade token."

 

I agree on all of this, but the Sheathipede could just do with a price increase across the board instead.

I like the rest of the changes because they keep the stuff playable without having it as powerful.

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3 minutes ago, ForceM said:

I agree on all of this, but the Sheathipede could just do with a price increase across the board instead.

I like the rest of the changes because they keep the stuff playable without having it as powerful.

No absolutely not. The sheathipede should never have had Ps11 Coordinate for anything close to 20 points. Ezra also has what was to be the most powerful combo in all Xwing for 8 waves: r3A2 gunner. Absolutely not. I've not seen a more horrific ship. 

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The Sheathipede-class is costed at less than +1 point per PS which is somewhat below average and does not account for the elite slot. A while back there were a lot of complaints that cost was not scaled appropriately with the value of PS on arc dodged and people applauded the high cost of Kylo's silencer (almost 2pt per PS increase!).

I think it would be worth play testing an appropriately costed sheathipede, given the high value of a last-move coordinate. @MajorJuggler probably has a more formulaic way to reevaluate how much these guys should cost. I'm re-costing values on the Silencer scale to start with:

AP-5 - 15 stays the same

Zeb - 16 can remain the same, given that his ability is less useful than AP-5's. This essentially makes Zeb the baseline pilot.

Ezra - 19-20 increase by 1pt/PS plus 1 more for the elite slot. This somewhat accommodates the power of his ability + slots. Potentially add one more point as an ability tax.

Fenn - 23-25 same increase as Ezra to accommodate the use of high PS, might want to add an additional point because of how valuable his ability his ability is (very similar with neutral tradeoffs to Wes who does have an ability tax) 

I've not seen a serious list with the latter two running more than a one point bid so this would at least initially force some list compromises, but it would take testing to find if those were serious enough to lower the list power level.

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Alternatively, you just remove the Elite slot, make it a no-elite ship like the K-Wing along similar concerns of stacking abilities, slots, and ps. In high power lists Ezra and Fenn always have their elite slot using something that increases their value by more than the cost of the upgrade.

This solution is easier to implement in a pickup setting because not everyone is going to know about FAQ or house rules and it's easier to say,

Option 1: "please remove that one upgrade, to make things more even. Now you have a 1-2 point bid"

than it is to say,

Option 2: "those ships should actually cost more, so your list is 2-5 points over 100. I'll wait while you recompile to a 'legal' list"

There's no nice way to propose Option 2 and it requires a lengthy explanation of why it's that number in particular; it will get a lot more exasperation, confusion, and take longer to fix at the time. Then there's a chance they say, "how about you just add X to your list and we'll call it even" now (if you even have any open slots) you have to find something that increases your value by as much as VI Fenn Rau adds to their list for just a couple points because in a casual pickup game there's less justification to stick with a hard cap of 100 points.

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6 hours ago, FrightfulCommand said:

No absolutely not. The sheathipede should never have had Ps11 Coordinate for anything close to 20 points. Ezra also has what was to be the most powerful combo in all Xwing for 8 waves: r3A2 gunner. Absolutely not. I've not seen a more horrific ship. 

The arc had the same combo available, but with the added built in cost of a 3atk primary (it's costed to include the value of the 0pt title) the stress-mule was never vastly more cost effective than the Y-wing stress-hog. With Ezra you have basically the same thing for 8pt less, plus an elite (Snap Shot for 3 stress!), and a pilot ability that super-synergies with the combo. 

Still, I'd hardly call it the most powerful combo for 8 waves ? there was already a lot of passive modifiers in the meta when he showed up and some very high power builds. I think costing him around 20pt or removing the elite slot would bring him in line.

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I am thinking about a 90 degree mobile firing using a sharpie and clear nylon washer, I just have to get the right measurements and make a Home Depot run.

Something like this, and line it up on a guid for the correct angle. It would not be "bound" to quadrants. 

HD-NW-1.125.jpg

Edited by Jadotch

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7 hours ago, FrightfulCommand said:

No absolutely not. The sheathipede should never have had Ps11 Coordinate for anything close to 20 points. Ezra also has what was to be the most powerful combo in all Xwing for 8 waves: r3A2 gunner. Absolutely not. I've not seen a more horrific ship. 

Oh, the shuttle is a bit over the top, but nothing compared to what Phantoms or U-Boats represented when they were the thing.

After all it’s only the support ship. The problem with rebels atm is the things it can support, and the combination of it all. Lowbob, Miranda, Ghost. They are the heavy hitters, and if you up the price tag on the Shady Pete a bit you will find that they will not be able to fit the same kind of oomph into the rest of the list. 

As for Ezra, comparable stressbot ships have existed, they were just a bit more expensive. Which is exactly the problem. Again a price change would help.

My personal Favorite always was the BTL-A4 Y-Wing with Ion cannon. If that got you in the wrong place it’s 2 Stress and and maybe an ion token. That was extremely nasty as it made it possible even for a stressed Y-Wing to get the follow up shot in. I have chased quite some small ships off the board like that.

Edited by ForceM

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2 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

I think it would be worth play testing an appropriately costed sheathipede, given the high value of a last-move coordinate. @MajorJuggler probably has a more formulaic way to reevaluate how much these guys should cost. I'm re-costing values on the Silencer scale to start with:

 

Yes, and you can see my point values (at a 200 point scale) for my X-wing 1.0 Balance Mod here:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/264083-x-wing-10-balance-mod/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-3270879

 

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Part of me doesn't want new balance changes.  2E is where balance will be, hopefully, improved.

I think a large part of that is that there aren't really ways to do a quick fix on everything.  Fixing the issues with TLT and the Ghost are probably the best example.  A lot of the time, they're really not that unreasonable.  TLT TIE Aggressors/Y-Wings are still kinda unfun in the way they make dice rolls almost irrelevant against low-agility ships.  Most VCX lists before Ghost/Fenn weren't particularly problematic.  Biggs/Kanan, to an extent, but that was more of a Biggs issue.  I've felt for a long time that the issue isn't the individual upgrades, but the gradually accrued total of them all.

For these ships in particular, there's not really a good, simple change which fixes all of that, without breaking other things. Except 2nd Edition. We hope.  

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