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HolySorcerer

TIE Phantoms are now 3/2/3/2

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22 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Cloaking rules haven't changed, so you're still a soft 2 agility TIE when out of cloak.  You're a much lower priority target, but the reduction in attack value and inability to target lock really hurts the offense.

Here's what I'm looking for in a change to cloaking mechanics: is the ACD gone? [EDIT: yes it is gone.] I sure hope it is. [EDIT: well good news buddy! because it is gone.] It seems counterintuitive that Phantoms will be better without one of their strongest upgrades, but the ACD was basically the reason that Phantoms were impossible to balance properly in 1.0 (well, that and turrets I guess).

Edited by nexttwelveexits
literally in the post before mine. smh

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2 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Here's what I'm looking for in a change to cloaking mechanics: is the ACD gone? I sure hope it is. It seems counterintuitive that Phantoms will be better without one of their strongest upgrades, but the ACD was basically the reason that Phantoms were impossible to balance properly in 1.0 (well, that and turrets I guess).

counter-intuitive, nothing

ACD was the reason phantoms were as horribly designed, ps dependent, and overpriced as they were

removing it means we can get an actually decently priced statline alongside a uniquely maneuverable fight

phantoms without ACD and priced accordingly are better than 1.0 phantoms, because they won't auto-lose to higher initiative

1 minute ago, PaulTiberius said:

Big question: if we can tentatively assume 3 becomes a hard cap on native attack value...how does Ghost change to compensate for the same reduction in its primary? (Big assumption at this point, I know.)

reinforce, cheaper price, better turret mechanics and upgrade options

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

phantoms don't have to be shackled to it and its ps dependency anymore

sure it's nice to evade with whisper, but even if you don't use the evade you still get to recloak

Now that is true. Meanwhile you get either way hammered from everything that go you in arc with your agility 2 and 5 HP. Your cloaking will provide you against that with one free evade token, which you basically need to re-cloak anyway. Your cloak seems not to provide any extra defense besides the ability to arc dodge better and the ability to gain one free evade token for emergencies. I guess Phantoms are now simply cheaper. Which I like because I have multiples of them. ?

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3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Meanwhile you get either way hammered from everything that go you in arc with your agility 2 and 5 HP. ?

you can tell that to...basically every halfway comparable ship? or what, is the x's one more health going to keep it around that much longer? or maybe the advance's 1 more agility will save the day?

 

point is, turrets don't exist anymore. if you're taking heavy fire with a ship as maneuverable as a phantom, you probably got outplayed

this isn't 1.0 anymore where a turret can just point at you and laugh. there are rules, man!

adjust expectations accordingly

Edited by ficklegreendice

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4 minutes ago, PaulTiberius said:

Big question: if we can tentatively assume 3 becomes a hard cap on native attack value...how does Ghost change to compensate for the same reduction in its primary? (Big assumption at this point, I know.)

Better question...


How does a simple transport ship justify anything other than a 3 dice primary attack? 

The ghost is one of the least explained ship in its capabilities. It's horrible, and should be drastically redesigned. 

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Just now, ficklegreendice said:

you can tell that to...basically every halfway comparable ship? or what, is the x's one more health going to keep it around that much longer?

turrets don't exist. if you're taking heavy fire with a ship as maneuverable as a phantom, you probably got outplayed

this isn't 1.0 anymore where a turret can just point at you and laugh. there are rules, man!

And the rules is that I can just turn my turret arc in your face, because I am Han and moving last, spending my action on that and most likely getting my re-rolls on top.  ?
Turrets very much exists and allow to control attack angles pretty well.  I am not the biggest lancer player, but I trained against them plenty enough to not take those mobile arcs lightly. If you fly your mobile fire arc ship correctly, you will not even lose much action efficiency. And than there are those gunner crew guys. ^:^

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oh please. if the new turrets even approximate half the strength of the originals, then the game simply isn't worth investing in

if you're facing down a falcon with its new red boost and no chainable actions, I honestly wouldn't be very impressed with its piddly single unmodified attack

plus there's so far no c3po, no evade, and apparently they've removed the 1-turns and stuck it on the firespray instead

 

and we already know from vader how crazy expensive the new initiative 6 is.

color me decidedly unconcerned. a 5 health, 2 agility with a 3 die primary, crew slot (Assuming they kept it, dang thing's a two-seater) and free evades is going to do just fine, unless you royally screw up

and really, that's how every ship in x-wing should be

Edit: cripes even forgot how old action independent modifiers, like predator, are bullseye arc only so far

Only got those on your primary firing arc ;)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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38 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Boo! Hiss! 

Remove the 4 Attack from the Ghost as well. It was pure powercreep anyway. 

Actually ghost will probably get a fix so it’s a two die primary rear arc while the shuttle is docked, and double mobile arcs that you can stack. (2 die for dorsal, 2 for chin.)

however stacking won’t give you a 4 die atk, but rather 2, 2 die, atks.

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

oh please. if the new turrets even approximate half the strength of the originals, then the game simply isn't worth investing in

I am not as optimistic as you are about that. So in case we hear bad news about turrets in the next months (which I am going to be busy elsewhere most likely) ... I wish you only the bests things, it was a pleasure to read your insights on the game. 

But hey, I like being wrong … especially in cases like this one. :)

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Trust me, I DESPISE turrets from 1.0

Turned what should be a game of tactical manuevering and positioning into dice offs that they were more likely to win anyway 

**** em. Them getting changed to mobile arcs is FAR AND AWAY the single best thing about 2.0

So when I of all people look at the new falcon and go "...meh", you know we're in for good times

Unless it costs as much as an xwing or something. Concerns will have to be raised then 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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The ghost is a heavy combat ship. Something which is so full of guns that even imperial light cruiser are actually valid hunting targets for the ghost. Double Proton Launchers, more guns than a B-Wing as well, etc 
It really is a heavily armed combat ship. 

 

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

**** em. Them getting changed to mobile arcs is FAR AND AWAY the single best thing about 2.0

Thing is, I have seen already tons of complains that mobile arcs get you just as many shots as PWT and are basically nearly the same ...  but I made that point already. So no reason to get into that again. Let's hope you are right. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Trust me, I DESPISE turrets from 1.0

Turned what should be a game of tactical manuevering and positioning into dice offs that they were more likely to win anyway 

**** em. Them getting changed to mobile arcs is FAR AND AWAY the single best thing about 2.0 since far 

So when I of all people look at the new falcon and go "...meh", you know we're in for good times

Unless it costs as much as an xwing or something. Concerns will have to be raised then 

There is no way people are going to look at the Falcon and say "meh". It has a rotating double arc. That thing is going to be nasty. 

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So no re-cloak after attack but you spend an evade to get it back? That means that if you end up shot at and have to use that token you can't recloak, making it super important to just not end up in any arcs? Am I understanding this correctly?

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It would have been neat to give it a 4-attack in its bullseye arc, but unfortunately that isn't the case.  Of course it is to early to say, as we don't know its cost and upgrades, but it is a bit sad we lost a heavy hitter in the conversion.

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7 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

There is no way people are going to look at the Falcon and say "meh". It has a rotating double arc. That thing is going to be nasty. 

and? every turret has a rotating arc.

the falcon is 3-die primary with a red boost and (going off of what the designers said on stream) no more 1-turns

if they rotate their arc, they don't focus/lock. they also can't boost. If they boost, they get stressed.

I mean, the falcon has to make decisions. actual decisions with consequences

I NEVER thought I'd live to see the day. it's literally all I ever asked for in a turret fix. How could I possibly ask for anything more?

 

 

any imbalances are going to result from poor point costs, which is something that could happen to any ship and be adjusted appropriately. Bring it.

if all goes well, I might even end up flying one. wouldn't that just turn the world on its head?

 

 

 

also, might as well bring this up here, just because it has a mobile arc doesn't mean it has **** on the 1.0 caster. Asajj could beat any turret in a dice-off easily because she was swimming in action independent re-rolls (lone wolf), focus (stims), and evades (latz). let us not attributed that ship's strength to its mobile arc only, when in reality it was the action-independent modifiers it could heap upon itself

and since FFG has made it their mission in 2.0 to do away with such things as much as possible, well they have to royally **** the bed to for new falcon to be anywhere near as powerful

 

to get back on track, turrets are dead, mobile arcs are fine; phantom's going to be fine

Edited by ficklegreendice

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4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

and?

it's 3-die primary with a red boost and (going off of what the designers said on stream) no more 1-turns

if they rotate their arc, they don't focus/lock. they also can't boost. If they boost, they get stressed.

I mean, the falcon has to make decisions. actual decisions with consequences

I NEVER thought I'd live to see the day. it's literally all I ever asked for in a turret fix. How could I possibly ask for anything more?

 

 

any imbalances are going to result from poor point costs, which is something that could happen to any ship and be adjusted appropriately. Bring it.

if all goes well, I might even end up flying one. wouldn't that just turn the world on its head?

 

 

 

also, might as well bring this up here, just because it has a mobile arc doesn't mean it has **** on the 1.0 caster. Asajj could beat any turret in a dice-off easily because she was swimming in action independent re-rolls (lone wolf), focus (stims), and evades (latz). let us not attributed that ship's strength to its mobile arc only, when in reality it was the action-independent modifiers it could heap upon itself

and since FFG has made it their mission in 2.0 to do away with such things as much as possible, well they have to royally **** the bed to for new falcon to be anywhere near as powerful

I know, right? I hated 1300s because they were boring to fly. I almost liked Rey, but still wasn't enough to be really fun. I flew Decimators a bit as an FU to all the Rebels, but at least with them staying alive was a challenge on picking your boosts so it still felt like I was doing *something* Chewie with Predator and C3PO, immune to blocking and just about everything I ever wanted to do, is what killed my Tie Swarm, save for the brief crack-swarm revival, and I'm so glad it's gone.

Edited by PenguinBonaparte

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2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

also, might as well bring this up here, just because it has a mobile arc doesn't mean it has **** on the 1.0 caster. Asajj could beat any turret in a dice-off easily because she was swimming in action independent re-rolls (lone wolf), focus (stims), and evades (latz). let us not attributed that ship's strength to its mobile arc only, when in reality it was the action-independent modifiers it could heap upon itself

And? It was still getting a shot basically every turn. And we are still talking about a two evades maximum ship with low hull. 
And we are still talking about double arcs, meaning you basically get your normal actions on top, because you setup your mobile arc ones and afterwards get either a main or mobile arc shot for the rest of the game, while still having mods. 
Sure, you can balance everything via the price, but in essence turrets don't seem gone at all. 

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8 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

And? It was still getting a shot basically every turn. And we are still talking about a two evades maximum ship with low hull. 
And we are still talking about double arcs, meaning you basically get your normal actions on top, because you setup your mobile arc ones and afterwards get either a main or mobile arc shot for the rest of the game, while still having mods. 
Sure, you can balance everything via the price, but in essence turrets don't seem gone at all. 

again, we're not in 1.0

two evades max is going to be fine against a 3 die primary. This isn't rey with her re-rolls + fin blank + expertise "HI, GET ******!", it's a single shot with han re-rolls and a focus at best (though lacking a 1-turn + large base + red boost and having to be at range 1 of obstacles...yeah your opponent still has to actually fly well)

of course if, Han has a focus then he isn't rotating his arc or red boosting. he also isn't c3poing and stacking an evade result on top of it

and if he's stressed? no rotate arc. overlapped obstacle or ship? no rotate arc.

actual. dang. consequences

 

you can claim at the most shallow level that "turrets aren't gone because rotate arc action", but if you sit down for a few seconds and compare him with the literally unavoidable, boosts whenever he feels like, turns wherever he wants to, fully modified (+gunner) without any actions Han solo of yore...

it's hard to find a proper analogy to express just how NOT 1.0 the new falcon is. It's like when you're a tiny kid and you stumble across discarded jewelry and you think you're a millionaire because you haven't learned what cheap imitations are yet. the 1.0 falcon is what you think you're holding in your hands, the 2.0 is what's actually there

Edited by ficklegreendice

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17 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The ghost is a heavy combat ship. Something which is so full of guns that even imperial light cruiser are actually valid hunting targets for the ghost. Double Proton Launchers, more guns than a B-Wing as well, etc 
It really is a heavily armed combat ship. 

Yes, and small hand guns can penetrate the shields and armor of an Interdictor. 


The ghost is a heavy combat ship, because Filoni sucks at writing, and cannot create stories without also creating overpowered crap for the heroes.  His BS is about as accurate in my eyes, than the old energy values of laser weapons. 

We can base stuff on it, but then we really shouldn't hold back the Defender either, with 6 cannons. 

 

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