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HolySorcerer

TIE Phantoms are now 3/2/3/2

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2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

So how many fickle green dice should cloak be adding to be worth more than one guaranteed evade from the de-cloak? :D

Remember that Evading just changes a green to an evade now, and you will need one evade to recloak. So i would argue you should sometimes stay cloaked and take the evade action or Focus for more lolz

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I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

 

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

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1 minute ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

 

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

Because they really don't want massive offensive stacking in the longer term, and coupled with the changes to the new evade action a 4 die primary leads to situations where a shot just can't be dodged by a very evasive ship (which is something else they are trying to avoid)

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5 minutes ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

 

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

If they want to try to represent the TIE Phantom’s extra cannons they’ll probably do it in an Phantom-specific Upgrade. Probably a mod that does something like Bossk’s ability- if it hits deal 1 extra damage. 

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21 minutes ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

  

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

I thought the Striker only had 4 guns.  If you look closely the Interceptor actually has 10 gun mounts, with only the 4 wing tip guns ever being counted.  The defender used similar design and upped the count to 14, with two usually being Ion cannons and the chin gun mounts possible used for missile tubes.  

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35 minutes ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

 

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

Gameplay > SW Canon

 

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14 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

So the Phantoms have lost their heavy firepower and likely lost the ability to recloak immediately after firing.  This makes them less swingy, but less special as well.  Presumably this will come with a big price reduction, as Whisper and Echo lose a lot of value with only 3-attack.  Is there still a home for a 3 attack die phantom in your squads?  How cheap do they need to be to be make them worth taking?

 

swz07_a1_empire_spread.png

swz07_a1_cardfan.png

Not confirmed yet. One thing could be a new mechanism to get an extra attack dice on the rounds you decloak. Could even be 2 red base + 2 red from decloak. Would be like a sneak attack from a rogue in other games. So the gameplay would be use a turn to cloak and get +2 green, next turn decloak + attack with +2 red, next turn cloak, get +2 green and get away, repeat. It would work with the "hit and run" tactics they tried to implement so much at the end of 1.0.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

 

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

The Bwing was loaded for BEAR to take on capital ships

If we stuck religiously to fluff, it'd annhilate everything on the table with its compliment of blasters, cannons, and ordnance

As Icelon said, gameplay is far more important than adherence to some background info 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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47 minutes ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

Defenders have now 6 as well, if we take the canon ones over the legends ones. 😉

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1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

Defenders have now 6 as well, if we take the canon ones over the legends ones. 😉

I might be 4 regulars and 2 ion however (I haven't seen season 4 yet, so I could be wrong).  And I think this indicates why gameplay should be WAY more important than balance.

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38 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Because they really don't want massive offensive stacking in the longer term, and coupled with the changes to the new evade action a 4 die primary leads to situations where a shot just can't be dodged by a very evasive ship (which is something else they are trying to avoid)

Yeah but many ordnances still pack a punch (but most likely less moded) and can now be used multiple times. If only ordnance ships are allowed that kind of offense, they will almost be the only ones played. If they remove the auto recloak from the phantom and lower the atck dice it will need to be at a much lower cost than it is now. At the proper price it could still be a good ship. Who knows, it might even have 2 crew slots now. A cloaked Palp could be fun :-)

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2 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Yeah but many ordnances still pack a punch (but most likely less moded) and can now be used multiple times. If only ordnance ships are allowed that kind of offense, they will almost be the only ones played. If they remove the auto recloak from the phantom and lower the atck dice it will need to be at a much lower cost than it is now. At the proper price it could still be a good ship. Who knows, it might even have 2 crew slots now. A cloaked Palp could be fun 🙂

but 4 dice twice is still better than 4 dice all the time, and the possibility of 5 dice.  Overall, a net positive for 3 evade ships.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

but 4 dice twice is still better than 4 dice all the time, and the possibility of 5 dice.  Overall, a net positive for 3 evade ships.

This

Also, target lock requirement in a game where action efficiency is at an absolute premium

Ordnance toned down, no chips, concussion is 3 dice and ptotorp are HIT --> CRIT not FOCUS --> CRIT

Scaling costs per ship/initiative

Still limited shots or RED reload 

And Poons are gone

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

And Poons are gone

 

Or every ordinance is poons.  remember, one of the main benefits was that you got to keep your lock, and double modify.  The other big plus was the damage card specification, which got under regen.  the first is no longer special, and the second is no longer needed.

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Posted (edited)

 

A tie phantom has 5 HP and gets free evade tokens. Assuming you decloaked and were locked by a missile armed enemy...

4 reds with TL averages 3 results. No guidance chips.

(the breakdown is 3/4*3/4*3/4*3/4 (final odds: 81/256) for 4 hits, 3/4*3/4*3/4*1/4 x4 (total: 108/256) for 3 results, 3/4*3/4*1/4*1/4 x6 (total: 54/256) for 2 results, 3/4*1/4*1/4*1/4 x4 (total: 12/256) for 1 result, and a 1/256 chance of blanking/eyeballing out

2 greens with focus and evade from decloaking. 9/64 chance of NOT getting double evade. 25/64 chance of not needing to spend the evade token at all.

If allowed to recloak to token up between shots, the tie phantom can shrug off two worst case proton torpedo shots uncloaked, and barely even drops shields from average rolls.

This of couse assumes 1v1. Crackshot Tie Swarm OP.

Edited by Rakaydos
Math edit complete.

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1 hour ago, evanger said:

I don't like that change. The lore says the TIE Phantom (with five laser cannons) has more firepower than most other small ships. More than Interceptor & Defender (four each).

TIE Striker should win for heaviest hitter, though (6 laser cannons).

Particularly when you can balance it all with points adjustments in 2.0, why not stick to SW canon as closely as possible?

FFG wrote that when the TIE phantom was a 4 dice ship.

I've never much liked the attack is proportional to number of barrels argument. It completely ignores the fact that not all cannons have the same firepower.

GJw51XF.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Firespray-32 said:

I've never much liked the attack is proportional to number of barrels argument. It completely ignores the fact that not all cannons have the same firepower

Also the fact that having more guns doesn’t automatically improve your aim, so a 6-gun phantom should have the same chance of hitting as a 4-gun X-wing. 

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40 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I might be 4 regulars and 2 ion however (I haven't seen season 4 yet, so I could be wrong).  And I think this indicates why gameplay should be WAY more important than balance.

Maybe it's not just how many you have but the "calibre" (or whatever the laser cannon equivalent is), rate of fire, precision, etc?

All those are xcuses of course. Gameplay>rules

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Is anyone keeping track of many Imperial threads are complaining their stuff is underpowered in 2.0. This is honestly getting out of hand, every single time I see one of these threads I just have to log off of the forums for the rest of the day due to how idiotic these threads are, we do not even know the points costs, slots, or accompanying upgrade cards. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Or every ordinance is poons.  remember, one of the main benefits was that you got to keep your lock, and double modify.  The other big plus was the damage card specification, which got under regen.  the first is no longer special, and the second is no longer needed.

If it ain't cheap as chips and dealing extra facedown cards, it ain't Poons

It is, however, homing missiles

And we all remember how OP bombers were when they launched with those...oh wait 

Plus now it's much harder to get full mods and I highly HIGHLY doubt gchips are coming back. 2.0 is Gonna need a support vessel or the force (fortunately, Palp is both :)

Plus, if Predator is anything to go by (it's primary weapon only now, also bullseye only so no mobile arc shenanigans), ffg is keeping an eye on secondary weapons 

Four die attacks from ordnance have a lot of restrictions built in, they're just not 1.0 proton Torps useless

Only concern so far are Vader and Luke, high initiative force users. Gotta hope ordnance is appropriately costed on them. But hey, at least whisper ties with Luke 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 hour ago, Herowannabe said:

Also the fact that having more guns doesn’t automatically improve your aim, so a 6-gun phantom should have the same chance of hitting as a 4-gun X-wing. 

Bad example as usually the phantom has a much better chance to hit, because evading against a ship which comes out of cloak is much harder. 😉
Now having just two dice and adding two in rounds when you have just decloaked  sounds cool. 

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