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MandalorianMoose

Like watching paint dry

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8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Thanks Ginkapo.

 

That is certainly an interesting take on the concept for sure, but the build I am talking about is the Demo/RS Mauler auto damage, as noted a key weakness of FT is black dice requirement, which is a glaring issue with the profusion of non unique squadrons in rebel builds.

 

No criticism of Kristjan intended here, I have much admiration for taking such a different build and doing so well with it.

Edited by TheEasternKing

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1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Almost Vanilla Activations (400/400)
============================
Kuat Refit (112 + 31)
    + Moff Jerjerrod (23)
    + Strategic Adviser (4)
    + Leading Shots (4)
Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56 + 14)
    + Ordnance Experts (4)
    + Demolisher (10)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 3)
    + External Racks (3)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 3)
    + External Racks (3)
Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 3)
    + External Racks (3)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Most Wanted
Hyperspace assault
Solar Corona

 

?

Is the smiley face a joke because you'll never survive long enough to shoot with anything? 

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19 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Is the smiley face a joke because you'll never survive long enough to shoot with anything? 

No hahaha. I am good enough with raiders. But the smiley is there cause I get 8!!

Edited by ovinomanc3r

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2 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

Makes me question why no one tried anti squad Demo build, would sure make Rieekan cry losing all squadrons in a last/first activation.

I’ve played with it quite a bit, and while it can be devastating, the main issue it runs into is consistency. Without a way to reroll at least one of those flak dice, you run the very real risk (happens frustratingly often, at least to me), of rolling acc/crit on almost everything you take a shot at. As noted above, Kallus/flechettes is very matchup dependent and you can be left with a very hamstrung and innefective Demo if you run into someone with little to no aces. 

The best compromise I’ve found is to have kallus ride shotgun (barring the need for another officer, and there are so many that would rather be here) and put exrax on it so that if you do happen to get the acc on a scatter ace you need dead, you can blow it for 2 more black with reroll capability. 

But even then.... apt is only two more points...

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4 hours ago, Vergilius said:

First of all, you've definitely hit the major thing that is intrinsic to the game of Armada:  the activation sequence. At some point we're going to bump up against that, but that is also fundamentally what makes Armada a game.  That mechanic has been in the game from the start and what you describe here certainly affected fleets well before we got the right combination of units that allowed squadrons/flotillas to set in and take over the meta.  Unfortunately, I think a complaint at this level bumps up against what can be done to fix it?  Does it take Armada 2.0 to get a new mechanic going?  I think the activation sequence, and by extension, the need for useful activations is going to be with us until the end of the game.

I think wave 7 has done an okay job showing a path forward on that.

Well...I mean, not Strategic Advisor obviously.  What a useless card - if you and your opponent bring it, it effectively does nothing.  Stupid...

Bail and Pryce, however, show one way to do this - and what I like about them is that they provide counter-play.  IE., if you are the player that ran a huge activation list and built your strategy and plan around it, the enemy doesn't have a surprise-your-whole-build-is-neutralized upgrade.  They sort of do...but only one turn, and that turn is advertised in advance, so you know when and where that will happen.  You can then decide if you want to push on that turn, possibly unexpectedly, knowing that a big part of the intent behind your list design is partially neutralized...or maneuver around that turn and push the attack before or after it.

Activations are a big part of this game, and that's not necessarily bad as long as cards like Pryce and Bail are easy to use, to work around it some, but in so doing also allow compelling counter-play for your opponent.

The problems with these two, though, are:

  • They are too expensive.  Both in pure point cost, and in opportunity cost - the 'officer' slot such a rare thing.
  • If you run into an enemy that you already have activation advantage on, they do practically nothing.  (Literally nothing in the case of Pryce)

I don't have a good or easy solution to the problem, other than to note that the idea of building a list to gain an advantage by maximizing activations is potentially fine, as long as your opponent has some counterplay like the above cards...which blunt the impact of that difference, but with their own counterplay.  (I mean, heck, improving the above two would be as simply as having a 'reserve' officer slot in list building.  So you build your list with maybe 3 different officers selected for one of the ships, and during deployment can equip one of them and discard the others - at least that way, you aren't locked into using up the slot and spending the points on something that WON'T do anything...)

Edited by xanderf

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1 hour ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I’ve played with it quite a bit, and while it can be devastating, the main issue it runs into is consistency. Without a way to reroll at least one of those flak dice, you run the very real risk (happens frustratingly often, at least to me), of rolling acc/crit on almost everything you take a shot at. As noted above, Kallus/flechettes is very matchup dependent and you can be left with a very hamstrung and innefective Demo if you run into someone with little to no aces. 

The best compromise I’ve found is to have kallus ride shotgun (barring the need for another officer, and there are so many that would rather be here) and put exrax on it so that if you do happen to get the acc on a scatter ace you need dead, you can blow it for 2 more black with reroll capability. 

But even then.... apt is only two more points...

 

You get around that with Mauler and a Jumpmaster, Demo can activate them itself to move them into range, that is 2 auto damage, Ruthless strats is 3 auto damage over 3 attacks, and it doesn't matter if you roll zero damage, that is 5 auto damage, not including Mauler/Jm attacks. with potentially 0-3 extra damage from Demo on each attacked squadron.

Don't even need Kallus really. its deadly to Sloane aces as they can't scatter any of the damage, and 5 auto damage is enough to kill 90% of aces in game currently.

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2 hours ago, Belisarius09 said:

They could nerf Riekan again, dunno how.

LOL, well the how is easy.  Never underestimate the ability to nerf something!  

"After deploying fleets, place a round token corresponding to each of the six turns on different unique squadrons or ships.  During the round matching each token, the ship or squadron it is placed on is not removed if destroyed until the end of the status phase."

It's really not necessary, though, nor would it really solve the problem with single-elimination finals.  Rieekan is merely one of the best defensive commanders - he's hardly the only one.  If he really did get nerfed to uselessness, as long as the finals encourage overly-defensive play...the same sort of matches will happen, just with a different commander.

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On 5/5/2018 at 7:27 PM, Truthiness said:

This has been proposed before. Our retired Jedi Master @IceQube MkII proposed a "4+4" format after a similar paint drying exercise last year. The idea being you have a four round day one, a cut to about the top 16 or 25%, and then do another 4 rounds of swiss. As a result, they did 5+3 at last year's NOVA and by all accounts it was a lot more fun. So much so, they're doing it again this year. Two five-round day ones, a cut to the top 8, and then three more rounds of swiss. I finally get to go this year, so I'm super pumped. Hope you can make it duck!

Holy cow... still 5 rounds in a day...that's crazy!

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4 hours ago, Belisarius09 said:

They could nerf Riekan again, dunno how.

he only affects squadrons?

 

That way, he's kind of the rebel version of Sloane. Might need a point rebalance though.

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If I were to nerf Rieekan again, I would have him only work on ships because it generally won't get more insane as more unique squadrons are introduced to the game (where he went from "helps some aces" in wave 3/4 to "holy crap, you can field an entire full squadron compliment of uniques!" in wave 5). Whether that's actually necessary, I couldn't say.

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40 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

If I were to nerf Rieekan again, I would have him only work on ships because it generally won't get more insane as more unique squadrons are introduced to the game (where he went from "helps some aces" in wave 3/4 to "holy crap, you can field an entire full squadron compliment of uniques!" in wave 5). Whether that's actually necessary, I couldn't say.

Yeah that makes sense.

 

I think it's too easy to field many aces... and their effects are pretty powerful for their cost (tokens and special abilities)

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20 minutes ago, Ophion said:

I dont think its even reikan, its the combination of reikan and yavaris that is getting people. Even then, i am in no way convinced it needs nerfing. 

 

4 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Yeah that makes sense.

 

I think it's too easy to field many aces... and their effects are pretty powerful for their cost (tokens and special abilities)

It’s these two together I think- you have access to 3 devastating aces that you can guarantee you will double tap at least twice (flight commander into engagement, then the following round at least- more if you manage to survive through that round as well)

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43 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

There are no fanboy responses.  Some of us simply don't care for directionless whining.  If the game is no longer to your liking, the door is over there.  However, the game is still in a good place despite the lack of active community engagement on FFG's part and we enjoy playing and discussing it.

Telling people to get out is one of the worst ways to grow a game. Regardless of how you want to spin it, games need feedback.  If someone has a genuine complaint, they should feel welcome to bring it up.

Its a huge pet peeve of mine to see people boot out everyone because they don’t like how or what they’re complaining about.  Armada is a hard sell as-is.  Telling people to get the **** out just shrinks potential opponents.

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14 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Telling people to get out is one of the worst ways to grow a game. Regardless of how you want to spin it, games need feedback.  If someone has a genuine complaint, they should feel welcome to bring it up.

Its a huge pet peeve of mine to see people boot out everyone because they don’t like how or what they’re complaining about.  Armada is a hard sell as-is.  Telling people to get the **** out just shrinks potential opponents.

I'm not telling anyone to get out.  I'm telling him to do the healthiest thing anyone who is deeply dissatisfied with any game to do - stop playing it, and do something they enjoy more.  We've all done that, and I'm pretty sure we've all done the opposite - stay with a hobby/game that we're no longer enjoying, because of the sunk-cost fallacy, or any number of other reasons.  It's no fun for the dissatisfied player, and it's no fun for others in the community who have to interact with them.  Please note that I am NOT saying anyone who disagrees with me needs to leave the game, but nobody can look at the OP and the post I'm replying to and consider that to be well-reasoned, adult criticism.

What should we NOT do?  Make childish posts/replies accusing us of being fanboys if we disagree with their poorly thought-out comments and positions.  That's what happens in the WoW forums - it shouldn't be happening here.

Edited by JauntyChapeau

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6 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I think the game is going in right direction though. There was a lot more fleet diversity this year vs last 2 years. It's just unfortunate that the same "archetype" won again.

It's not unfortunate for Nathan. 

To be totally honest, I loved his fleet. Moment I saw it round 1 I impressed by how it really took Rieekan to a peak all comers list with an incredible balance of ship and squad firepower. Watching him play it was a thing of beauty and I was fortunate enough to see most of his games and every one of them was exciting and action packed. Including the first game of the cut. 

The final wasn't that kind of game. And unfortunately for anyone that wasnt there that was all they saw. 

But to say it's unfortunate that fleet won, eh, I think that fleet and the guy playing it deserved it.

 

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1 minute ago, JauntyChapeau said:

I'm not telling anyone to get out.  I'm telling him to do the healthiest thing anyone who is deeply dissatisfied with any game to do - stop...more words

“If the game is no longer to your liking, the door is over there.”

Pointing our the tone comes across as super aggressive I’ve never had someone ‘show me the door’ in a non-combative way.

And sure, maybe people take it a bit too far.  We are on a dedicated fan page for a game, though.  So I tend to give a lot of grace for people who are passionate about the game.

Coming from me, someone who worked with and around game designers, they want to get negative, constructive feedback. A boring game that sucks to watch on Twitch is not going to draw crowds.  Though that really gets away from my point of, we should all be civil with one another.

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2 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

 

Coming from me, someone who worked with and around game designers, they want to get negative, constructive feedback. A boring game that sucks to watch on Twitch is not going to draw crowds.  Though that really gets away from my point of, we should all be civil with one another.

What part of what we're referring to is constructive feedback?

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10 hours ago, Belisarius09 said:

They could nerf Riekan again, dunno how.

I don't think a drastic measure is necessary. Rather, find a way to increase the defensive power of ships in general (especially the ability to respond to squadrons) that isn't commander or slot-specific. Not every ship has the defensive upgrade slots, but we do have defensive officers of varying effectiveness on both sides.

If ships in general had more means to be defensive, then you can either save points with a commander like Rieekan or invest in those specific upgrades for everyone. Until then, Rieekan is the surest way to survive being one-shot from anything.

Edited by Norsehound

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