Jump to content
Zensyntax

X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

I've never heard of people not being able to use the models they already own for 40k.  

A lot of those kits are kind of old. I'm not sure it's even possible for everyone to replace their existing models.

Yeah never heard of that either. I've heard of people getting told no about non gw models but never heard that about old gw models. People still play the old space hulk termies as termies in gw shops. They never made you rebut old models. Some people just do because uniformity or new hotness addiction. **** alot of those old models are getting rereleased made to order like bonesingers and such. Which is the exact opposite of not supporting old models.

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

I've never heard of people not being able to use the models they already own for 40k.  

You just need to go to tournaments, with True Line of Sight and WYSIWYG, using older ones that are smaller as newer ones is a no go and for conversions that change the size of the models you need the have the original one to replace it in case for Line of Sight.

And there is also the case that equipment changed and is not available anymore but your models have them.

Yes GW supports old models and conversions, but just for narrative or open play, tournaments are something different
the same as you don't need every card for casual games in X-Wing but official events are a different story

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Kodos said:

You just need to go to tournaments, with True Line of Sight and WYSIWYG, using older ones that are smaller as newer ones is a no go and for conversions that change the size of the models you need the have the original one to replace it in case for Line of Sight.

And there is also the case that equipment changed and is not available anymore but your models have them.

Yes GW supports old models and conversions, but just for narrative or open play, tournaments are something different
the same as you don't need every card for casual games in X-Wing but official events are a different story

Tell that to my old Chaos SM Obliterators - the originals where std marine size, next edition changed them to larger bases and models meaning my old models needed replacing.

Also tell me about HQ character Cypher that was completely dropped.

I could go on but too many years of changing things for the sake of change killed my intetest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thormind said:

licensing cost should probably get a *

Yeah, but it's also spread out over the lifetime of the game, and shared with other aspects of the IP like Armada, Legion, Imperial Assault, etc. When talking specifically about the cost of development for the 2.0 rules set and the conversion kits it's not going to be a huge cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sekac said:

The bunk part is that GW is cheaper to go through edition changes. I play one army only, have not bought any new models for this edition and I have spent $150 to be 8th edition ready. 

Even if you limit yourself to just the core book and one army book, the absolute minimum is $100. $10 more than the 2.0 starter and one conversion box. 

There literally is not a way to get through a 40k edition change for less than starting x-wing 2.0.

This only remains true so long as you don't buy a single ship for X Wing for the entire lifetime of 2.0.

Also, as soon as you need to buy say, a third X Wing 'upgrade kit' on eBay or whatever, then you've spent more on X Wing. Practically no one gets to upgrade their entire collection with a single kit. Most people will need to spend more. For some it will even be the best economical choice to buy more than one conversion kit for each faction.

Edited by Chucknuckle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Gallanteer said:

But if you play in tournaments, GW block use of fielding models if they have been replaced with newer sculpts (which they always do).

Did you get a whole 15 new troop models for that $150? Their prices are ridiculous.

The main reason I quit 40k after 30 years was because the ruleset continued to have so many holes in every edition and ambiguous rulings. FFG has its moments but on the whole are pretty solid.

This is 100% untrue. If this happened to you then I'm sorry, but it was a rogue TO. People can and have used 30 year old sculpts in tournaments. Most GW staff love seeing the old models still getting some love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Take - for example - the Adeptus Mechanicus, a new faction for WH40K introduced in 7th Edition.  Not a bad starting point you'd think; an all new army for an all new player.

To start with, you needed the 7th Edition Rulebook.  Then you needed to pick up Codex: Cult Mechanicus to get the relevant army list entries.

Only, it was a small army, so then they introduced Codex: Skitarii as well to bulk up the list and add new units.  And, while you're at it, you may have wanted to pick up Codex: Imperial Knights as well.  Because big machines roflstomp small machines.

Then 8th Edition came out.  SO you needed to update your rulebook.  And all your previous codexes immediately became invalid, so you needed to pick up Index: Imperium II.  Which was only ever really a stop gap until Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus eventually came out.

Now, bear in mind that the FIRST Adeptus Mechanicus release was March 20185, and that's up to SEVEN rulebooks you would have needed to pick up in the space of just three years.  And that's before you even picked up a single model.

Yeah, the Admech are a niche case though, and all their units were rolled into a single codex in this edition.

1 hour ago, Kodos said:

You just need to go to tournaments, with True Line of Sight and WYSIWYG, using older ones that are smaller as newer ones is a no go and for conversions that change the size of the models you need the have the original one to replace it in case for Line of Sight.

And there is also the case that equipment changed and is not available anymore but your models have them.

Yes GW supports old models and conversions, but just for narrative or open play, tournaments are something different
the same as you don't need every card for casual games in X-Wing but official events are a different story

I don't know what tournaments you've been playing in, but it's never a requirement I've encountered (or even heard of until this thread) that new sculpts had to be used. ****, I've seen some of the whackiest, most outrageous conversions at tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is this thread still going?   At this point people either believe examples provided or not, depends on the size of your collection and whether you are comparing converting one faction to a whole collection.     

I know for me I’ll be spending a comparable amount to update my entire Xwing collection to what it cost me for converting to the new edition of 40k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

I don't know what tournaments you've been playing in, but it's never a requirement I've encountered (or even heard of until this thread) that new sculpts had to be used. ****, I've seen some of the whackiest, most outrageous conversions at tournaments.

For example, it needs a lot of goodwill from your opponents if the TO allows it to use the old Greater Damons instead of the 8th edtion models
(maybe in small 10 people events but on the bigger ones you would have problems)

new-lord-of-change.jpg?_t=1488753158bhzall861va01.jpg

 

For conversion it is something different
But I have replaced the flight stands from GW with something more stable and the once TO asked me to bring the original ones in case as changing the official base is modelling for advantage

Of course I never had any problems playing the local events in the club, but they also would allow me printed X-Wing cards

 

24 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

This is 100% untrue. If this happened to you then I'm sorry, but it was a rogue TO. People can and have used 30 year old sculpts in tournaments. Most GW staff love seeing the old models still getting some love.

yeah, for infantry sized models that are still WYSIWYG you won't have any problems, if it has the right base size (needed to re-base my Khorne Hounds 3 times in 1 edition to get them tournament legal)
For everything else it is better to send pictures and ask the TO in advance if they are going to allow it and there is a high chance that the TO ask you to bring the original out of the Box model for every conversion or old sculpt you have in case to prevent an opponent blaming you for modelling in advantage

and GW stuff loves the old models, if they recognise it, seen it more than once that the store guy let people remove old models because he thought they are 3rd party sculpts because they were too old for him

40k has changed in the last 2 editions, tournaments are slightly less relaxed as they were in 5th and I hope SW Legion won't come up with the same stupid stuff for conversions or different sculpts (but reading in the subforum I get the feeling that those people already switched from 40k to Legion)

Edited by Kodos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

This is 100% untrue. If this happened to you then I'm sorry, but it was a rogue TO. People can and have used 30 year old sculpts in tournaments. Most GW staff love seeing the old models still getting some love.

Not remotely untrue.  I have been told in no uncertain terms that I could not use old Rogue Trader era Harlequin minis at more that one GW store.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kodos said:

For example, it needs a lot of goodwill from your opponents if the TO allows it to use the old Greater Damons instead of the 8th edtion models
(maybe in small 10 people events but on the bigger ones you would have problems)

new-lord-of-change.jpg?_t=1488753158bhzall861va01.jpg

 

For conversion it is something different
But I have replaced the flight stands from GW with something more stable and the TO asked me to bring the original ones in case as changing the official base is modelling for advantage

 

yeah, for infantry sized models that are still WYSIWYG you won't have any problems
For everything else it is better to send pictures and ask the TO in advance if they are going to allow it and there is a high chance that the TO ask you to bring the original out of the Box model for every conversion or old sculpt you have in case to prevent an opponent blaming you for modelling in advantage

40k has changed in the last 2 editions, tournaments are slightly less relaxed as they were in 5th and I hope SW Legion won't come up with the same stupid stuff for conversions or different sculpts (but reading in the subforum I get the feeling that those people already switched from 40k to Legion)

Like I said, you've got a rogue TO there my friend. No way is anyone getting kicked out of a GW tournament for using GW models. GW would pitch a fit if they knew a TO was acting like this.

The only time I've had to ask a TO anything about models was when I was using proxies, running the Leviathan from Dreamforge Games as a Dreadknight in my Grey Knights army. And that's fair because I was using another manufacturers model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Major Tom said:

Not remotely untrue.  I have been told in no uncertain terms that I could not use old Rogue Trader era Harlequin minis at more that one GW store.

I mean, I believe you, but that's not GW policy. That's a rogue staffer doing the wrong thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Like I said, you've got a rogue TO there my friend.

No this is standard here and even if the TO allows it than only if you are willing to replace them as soon as an opponent is not accepting them
So you have to buy the new Greater Damon anyway

It is something different depending on the event (non tournament events are less restrictive)

Edited by Kodos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chucknuckle said:

I mean, I believe you, but that's not GW policy. That's a rogue staffer doing the wrong thing.

In three different stores?  One of the managers even said that the policy from head office was if it’s not a figure GW currently produce he can't let people play with it in store.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

This only remains true so long as you don't buy a single ship for X Wing for the entire lifetime of 2.0.

Also, as soon as you need to buy say, a third X Wing 'upgrade kit' on eBay or whatever, then you've spent more on X Wing. Practically no one gets to upgrade their entire collection with a single kit. Most people will need to spend more. For some it will even be the best economical choice to buy more than one conversion kit for each faction.

Okay... sure but if you decide to buy anything extra for 40k you're back behind again. 

I'm not really sure what your point is,  because it sounds like you're saying X-wing is more expensive if you choose to spend more on it. 

That's definitely true, but so glaringly self-evident that I'm not sure the point needs to be made. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the thread is going out of a mixture of boredom and that those who just have to complain will complain.

When I do even a loose estimation of the components in one of these sets the price is just fine. It works out to well over a hundred cardboard pieces, plastic bases for the mediums and over 200 cards. not bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Major Tom said:

In three different stores?  One of the managers even said that the policy from head office was if it’s not a figure GW currently produce he can't let people play with it in store.

*shrugs*

I dunno man, must be a regional thing? Must be a new thing too because I've never heard anyone complain about it on any of the 40K forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

*shrugs*

I dunno man, must be a regional thing? Must be a new thing too because I've never heard anyone complain about it on any of the 40K forums.

I’ve no idea if it’s regional (all three shops involved are around an hour’s drive from Nottingham) but it’s certainly not new.  I havn’t played 40K in about 20 years, which was when I was first told this and it most recently came up in a discussion with my local store manager pretty recently when I was picking up some Shadespire and admireing the new Harlequin minis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People really need to stop whining about the pricing because when you actually take a moment to think about it, it's really not that bad.  I mean, in the past most players have gladly spent upwards of $30 or so just for a 2-ship pack that contained ships they already owned now with new paint jobs, but the main reason for the purchase was just for the cards that "fixed" these ships that were not strong enough to be competitive.

There are still a few ships struggling in the current environment: TIE Punishers, HWKs, E-wings and B-wings to name a few.  These ships just don't see a lot of play these days outside of casual play and the general consensus has been that it would be nice if they had some kind of fix.  Even TIE Phantoms are rarely seen lately on a competitive scale because there are just better and less risky options available.  But with 2.0, we have an opportunity to fix all of these and more.  So looking at it from this perspective, a conversion kit that doesn't just contain a fix for two models but for a dozen or so waves' worth -- again it's not that bad.

I also wouldn't say that changes (like the dials) are frivolous.  There are a lot of things in the game where people have said that this ship should be able to do this, and that ship should be able to do that, but that was impossible unless a new upgrade came along that allowed it in some way.  So to me, I don't see it as FFG adding new maneuvers just so you can't use your old stuff.  I see it as them adding things or changing things that should have been that way all along.

The end result appears to be a less fiddly, much more balanced game -- which is what many of us have been hoping for for a while.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess the price thing is just a problem because it is all at once

No one has a problem to pay 10 per month but if the have to pay 120 once it feels too much
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...