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X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

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1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

What narrative? Just because it's not the cheapest edition change ever, doesn't make it "the most expensive version change for a minatures game in the history of gaming."

I shouldn’t really speak for Chucklenuckle as I am only presuming, but I think that what they said was more in relation to people throwing around all sorts of unfounded whacky figures, than in direct reply to the title of the thread itself. Some people are inventing a narrative to reinforce their stance in the argument, this can go both ways but in this instance was related to the cost of converting to the new edition of AoS.

That was my take anyway, Chucklenuckle can correct me if I’m wrong. 

Edited by NulEnvoid
Suspect phrasing

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1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

What narrative?

 

58 minutes ago, Wes Janson said:

Games Workshop makes this look cheap.

This narrative.

"Ooh, Games Workshop charges way more when they change editions!"

No, they don't. FFG and GW are comparable, and in many ways GW is cheaper. This AoS change is a good example.

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:21 PM, Commander Kaine said:

Okay.

 

To all of you guys saying that you HAVE to upgrade... No. You don't. And you know what? FFG is not obligated to continue the game you like, in the way you like it, for all eternity. You can still use everything you have. None of your previous purchases are invalidated.

The majority of players will move on. You will not. Stay behind, and play the game you want. Be THAT guy in the FLGS. Gloat over the newfags who play the disgusting new edition... It will fill your life with whatever sour simulacrum of happiness you are capable of.

You are not doing a service here... You are not opening the eyes of anyone. All you do is whine, signalling your inability to cope with changes. You are not the enlightened prophet who sees the truth... You are the old guy shouting 'Git off my lawn'.

You are not needed here. Times change... Let the past die.

ZOMG.  You must have missed the irony of the last two paragraphs of your post.   Especially the part about being an "enlightened prophet".

This isn't the first time I've a fan-boy post shilling for game companies, signaling change-loving virtue, and denouncing anyone who doesn't follow the herd in which the poster has appointed himself lead bull.  But this one is a new level of obnoxious TFG arrogance.

There are valid reasons for player dissatisfaction with 2.0, not least of which is the loss of most opportunities to play with anyone other than a few of your own group.  The assumption that "the majority of players will move on" does not invalidate those reasons.  The new edition may or may not prove to be an improvement, even a worthwhile expenditure.  A substantial section of the existing customer base, however, may not be able to make such an expenditure.  You are not morally superior to those who cannot, or do not wish to, make the required conversion.

I submit that it is YOU who are "not needed here".

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On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 2:43 PM, SEApocalypse said:

Have I already mentioned that the Y-Wing is a new sculpture and it is just $20.  ^_^
And it looks so much better than the old one. :D

If you think a small ship is worth a 33% price increase merely because "it looks so much better than the old one," good on you for having that kind of $$$ to throw around.  GW would approve of your thinking.

I find such price-gouging to be at least as bad as, if not worse than, the 2.0 conversion cost.

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4 hours ago, NulEnvoid said:

I shouldn’t really speak for Chucklenuckle as I am only presuming, but I think that what they said was more in relation to people throwing around all sorts of unfounded whacky figures,

It's good to know that they've made a quick turnaround on a ruleset but that it sounds like, at least initially, it is free.  To be fair, most of the numbers people have been  "throwing around" were related to something like 40k or previous editions of Fantasy-- this is very different than those.   The figures I've given were exact cost for me for the new edition of 40k.

Edited by AlexW

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35 minutes ago, AlexW said:

It's good to know that they've made a quick turnaround on a ruleset but that it sounds like, at least initially, it is free.  To be fair, most of the numbers people have been  "throwing around" were related to something like 40k or previous editions of Fantasy-- this is very different than those.   The figures I've given were exact cost for me for the new edition of 40k.

Right. It doesn’t really matter how cheap or expensive the latest version changes for GW games are. The thread is asking whether this version change is the most expensive for a game ever (and in the first post, that question becomes rhetorical and it’s turned into a declaration).

I went through 5 versions of Warhammer Fantasy and 4 versions of 40k. I had 4 (really 5, until I stopped playing WE) WHFB armies and 3 40k armies. This X-Wing version change will be cheaper than most of those were for me.

I dropped out of 40k around 6th and dropped out of WHFB when they went to AoS, so the latest conversions of those games are truly meaningless to me, and they have little meaning in the context of this thread as well.

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22 minutes ago, elfholme said:

Right. It doesn’t really matter how cheap or expensive the latest version changes for GW games are. The thread is asking whether this version change is the most expensive for a game ever (and in the first post, that question becomes rhetorical and it’s turned into a declaration).

I went through 5 versions of Warhammer Fantasy and 4 versions of 40k. I had 4 (really 5, until I stopped playing WE) WHFB armies and 3 40k armies. This X-Wing version change will be cheaper than most of those were for me.

I dropped out of 40k around 6th and dropped out of WHFB when they went to AoS, so the latest conversions of those games are truly meaningless to me, and they have little meaning in the context of this thread as well.

It's important to be distinct in our cost breakdowns though. While many people bought new units for their armies when editions changed in WHFB or 40K, that was never (or very rarely that I can remember) necessary. The necessary purchases were rulebooks and codex/army books. And most of the time, you could keep using your old codex/army book until the new one was released, sometimes years down the track, so your only initial purchase was a rulebook. 

While yes, a lot of people bought new units after editions changed, are you not going to also buy new ships as the new waves are released in X Wing? I think the two are fairly comparable, especially as the new waves will include new pilots and upgrades not included in the conversion kits. Imagine if GW did the same thing: Charge you $50 for a codex, but only give you half the rules for your faction. And then drip feed you the rules for new units at $20 a pop, over the course of five years or more...

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1 hour ago, elfholme said:

Right. It doesn’t really matter how cheap or expensive the latest version changes for GW games are. The thread is asking whether this version change is the most expensive for a game ever (and in the first post, that question becomes rhetorical and it’s turned into a declaration).

It does matter when people pull unfounded figures up, regardless of the threads topic. Anything written is open to be challenged if it’s incorrect or misleading.

As for the threads topic itself, I personally find it a false metric, it’s really going to depend on previous investment to a system and how much needs to be converted over - which isn’t going to be the same for everyone. People feeding into it with rubbish costs of other systems are only propergating the nonsense, especially when some people really don’t seem to know what they’re talking about.

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6 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

What narrative? Just because it's not the cheapest edition change ever, doesn't make it "the most expensive version change for a minatures game in the history of gaming."

Remeber we live in an age where if someone doesn't agree with what you have to say and evidence to prove it they call it fake news and alternative facts.

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5 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

If you think a small ship is worth a 33% price increase merely because "it looks so much better than the old one," good on you for having that kind of $$$ to throw around.  GW would approve of your thinking.

It also seems like part of a fairer sales strategy which means that you don't have to buy out of faction to get the cards you need. So no more Autothruster packs and so on. Though let's see whether they keep the £75 Palp box habit up, that one could still happen...

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4 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

It's important to be distinct in our cost breakdowns though. While many people bought new units for their armies when editions changed in WHFB or 40K, that was never (or very rarely that I can remember) necessary. The necessary purchases were rulebooks and codex/army books. And most of the time, you could keep using your old codex/army book until the new one was released, sometimes years down the track, so your only initial purchase was a rulebook. 

While yes, a lot of people bought new units after editions changed, are you not going to also buy new ships as the new waves are released in X Wing? I think the two are fairly comparable, especially as the new waves will include new pilots and upgrades not included in the conversion kits. Imagine if GW did the same thing: Charge you $50 for a codex, but only give you half the rules for your faction. And then drip feed you the rules for new units at $20 a pop, over the course of five years or more...

Sorry this is just wrong, I'm a wolves player since 2nd ed I ran blood claws as the major troop element of my force, then came 6th and my claws became worthless because shooting ruled supreme so to stand a chance I had to buy long fang squads and grey hunters.

If I had wanted to play necrons in 8th I'd have to buy destroyers and the net bikes.

If I wanted to play with tau I'd be spending a fortune there.

Your old army will not always work in a new edition, something always replaced the old top dog.

But with x-wing I don't actually need to buy anything more once I have the conversion kit.

 

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40 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Sorry this is just wrong, I'm a wolves player since 2nd ed I ran blood claws as the major troop element of my force, then came 6th and my claws became worthless because shooting ruled supreme so to stand a chance I had to buy long fang squads and grey hunters.

If I had wanted to play necrons in 8th I'd have to buy destroyers and the net bikes.

If I wanted to play with tau I'd be spending a fortune there.

Your old army will not always work in a new edition, something always replaced the old top dog.

But with x-wing I don't actually need to buy anything more once I have the conversion kit.

 

Firstly, no, you didn't need to buy those units. You just wanted to because they were the top meta. That's no different to retiring your palp aces to buy trip jumpmasters.

Secondly, you're really not expecting to buy new ships in 2.0? Even when they release with sexy new pilots and upgrades you don't have? I don't believe you :D

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25 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

you're really not expecting to buy new ships in 2.0? Even when they release with sexy new pilots and upgrades you don't have? I don't believe you :D

Well at least we will only have to buy the new ships and can skip the old ships. And if the old ships get new cards we can just buy the cards as FFG has promised. But in general that i s no different than buying new ships for 1.0 so it does not really matter. But in theory there should be a greater chance of old ships staying competitive for a much longer time. The app can (and i hope it will) guarentee that.

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1 hour ago, Chucknuckle said:

Firstly, no, you didn't need to buy those units. You just wanted to because they were the top meta. That's no different to retiring your palp aces to buy trip jumpmasters.

Secondly, you're really not expecting to buy new ships in 2.0? Even when they release with sexy new pilots and upgrades you don't have? I don't believe you :D

No you see taking melee units after 5th is not viable, running blood claws did not work if I didn't buy those new units I lose automatically making playing pointless.

To stand a chance I 100% needed to buy shooting units, and I hated it and quit after a year of trying to get that gun heavy army to feel like my beloved wolves.

By comparison I have defenders and gunships so no I don't need to buy another ship, I may want to buy I won't need to that's the difference I'll have a choice 40k never gave me that.

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2 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

Firstly, no, you didn't need to buy those units. You just wanted to because they were the top meta. That's no different to retiring your palp aces to buy trip jumpmasters.

Secondly, you're really not expecting to buy new ships in 2.0? Even when they release with sexy new pilots and upgrades you don't have? I don't believe you :D

My thunderwolf Lords did not exist in the 7th edition codex. Nor did my Fenrsian Wolf Troops.

Edited by Rakaydos

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GW Edition change just to play with your buddies cause they all switched, is cheaper than the same with ffg.

 

If you're super into comp then ffg is cheaper than gw. 

 

But isn't this the game everyone says is beer and pretzels and that the comp scene is a minority? 

That makes this bad.

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9 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

GW Edition change just to play with your buddies cause they all switched, is cheaper than the same with ffg.

 

If you're super into comp then ffg is cheaper than gw. 

 

But isn't this the game everyone says is beer and pretzels and that the comp scene is a minority? 

That makes this bad.

If you just want to play with your buddies in X-wing all you need is one conversion kit. Who cares about the new damage deck or minor changes to the templates.

If you want to play very specific lists you might need more but if the beer and pretzels are out why is that necessary?

if you are converting more than one faction sure the cost goes up. But the same goes for any other game. You can't compare the cost of converting one GW army to a whol X-wing collection.

Also, I was in my local store a few weeks ago and there was an old GW fantasy army for sale (5th or 6th). I looked over some of the units and the first thing I thought was "oh you can't even run those troops in 8th edition in that configuration". In order to play with those models in 8th you would have had to pop all of their weapons off, have the correct weapons available, glue them on and then repainted the new arms to match.

Probably a lot of money and definitely a lot of work.

There is nothing like that with X-wing 2.0.

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