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X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

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43 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

y-wing.png

This is exactly why I am NOT converting everything. No point if I want the new models. Actually the more I think about it I may just buy a starter and sell what I can to v1 purists. Gonna have a lot of poor cousins if this new line is visually superior. Can’t wait to see some of the new designs.

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I don't believe everything is new, though

it seems to be on a sliding scale of "necessity" (as "necessary" as model improvements are, anyway). The X had to be updated for flappy-bird, the Y because...well you all know the old model.

but apparently the spray is just a different paint job, and I can't spy any differences in the TIE (though I don't own the gonzati TIEs and don't know if the sculpt improved since wave 0)

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I don't believe everything is new, though

it seems to be on a sliding scale of "necessity" (as "necessary" as model improvements are, anyway). The X had to be updated for flappy-bird, the Y because...well you all know the old model.

but apparently the spray is just a different paint job, and I can't spy any differences in the TIE (though I don't own the gonzati TIEs and don't know if the sculpt improved since wave 0)

No ties are ties just different colored ?

But this means I have to roll dice on what gets revamped. My first real complaint in this but just means I save money meh ?

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On 5/5/2018 at 3:41 AM, HolySorcerer said:

I'm upgrading Imperials, Scum, and Rebels plus a new core set for about $150.  What game has had a cheaper change from one edition to the next?

Kings of War

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:46 PM, Bulwyf said:

This is just wrong. You can have 10,000 models in your Warhammer army and still only need the core rulebook and your army codex to play in every edition. You never had to "convert" each one of your ships in order to play for any edition.

The OP is correct. I've played Warhammer Fantasy Battles in the mid 1980's and have played a plethora of miniature games since. None of them have been this costly in terms of a simple edition change. That includes games that had radical new rules or options in edition changes. I have, for instance, over 400 individual Space Wolves models for Warhammer 40k. It only cost me a new rulebook and an army book (once it is released for current edition 40k) to make all of those models "converted" for the current edition.

What you are describing is akin to someone in this game who only collects a single faction. It will cost them a new set of rules and a conversion kit to use all their new models. In other words, probably equivalent to the conversion to a new version of rules and codex. For the sake of argument I’ll ignore that GW tends to invalidate units when they switch editions.

I played WHFB from 3rd until they changed it to a Skirmish game with AoS. I also played 40k from RT to 3rd Ed. I have plenty of experience with GW edition changes, and you are mis-characterizing them.

I play every faction in X-Wing. I played 3 armies in 40k (IG, SM, Tyranids) and 4 in WHFB (Dwarfs, VC, TK, Lizardmen). This is pretty darned equivalent a changeover for me. The big difference from my perspective is that there would have been more version changes by now for a GW game. And the support between editions wouldn’t have been as good.

Understand that I’m not trying to convince anyone that this version change is a good thing, or that they need to buy into it. I just dispute the idea that this is a huge upgrade cost compared to other game upgrades. It’s simply not.

Now, if you’re only playing home games with friends and everyone is happy with 1st Ed., hold fast! Play the ships you have and keep having fun! If the cost is too high for you, don’t feel ashamed if you have to jump out. I left D&D Miniatures due to a version change (though I might have stuck with it if they had gone this route). I left WHFB when the focus of the game changed to something I had no interest in with AoS. I get it. Totally.

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53 minutes ago, elfholme said:

I left D&D Miniatures due to a version change (though I might have stuck with it if they had gone this route).

Me too. I played D&D mini’s competitively, I know it’s akin to you using turrets, but the version change ended that real quick. This is very tolerable by comparison.

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$50 USD to convert a single faction is a lot of money, but it does feel like a steal to me.  $50 in X Wing stuff has traditionally not gotten you a lot after all. 

Typically for $50 you would get 2-3 likely unviable ship models and a handful of must have cards for use on your other ships.  For example, for $50 you could get the U Wing and the Starviper, and really what you bought was two cool looking but unplayable models that are cool to set up on a shelf, and 2x Expertise + 2x Autothrusters to put on the ships you will actually fly in the game. 

I'm spending $40 on Saw's Renegades specifically for the T65 X Wing fix, after I spent $45 on 3 phantom II's for the last X Wing fix.... 

Now you've got $50 potentially bringing fixes to most of an entire faction, only needing to buy another if you have a high number of some ships (but you'll likely be able to avoid that on ebay once the conversion kits drop and get parted out).  200+ cards of fixes backed up by a new system where points can be adjusted to keep virtually anything viable over the run of the game. 

I understand people who are not happy about spending more money for something they think they already have, but FFG has put in a lot of work for what is essentially new content even if it reuses your old models.  This looks like a bigger effort than anything they have done for X Wing to date.  I don't really see what they are charging as unfair.  In the end if you buy all 3 conversion kits on launch and the new core set you're getting over 700 playable cards, 3 models, new dials for everything, new damage deck, new templates.  It is really a lot. 

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On 5/5/2018 at 5:45 AM, Baaa said:

But that's the point, the title of the thread is a question; not a statement as some people have made out.

It's perfect for hyperbole. 

Cheers 

Baaa

The OP answers his question in the first sentence of the first post of this thread. The question is rhetorical - it’s just a lead-in to a statement the OP wants to make.

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:41 PM, HolySorcerer said:

I'm upgrading Imperials, Scum, and Rebels plus a new core set for about $150.  What game has had a cheaper change from one edition to the next?

How many do you want me to name?

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On 5/4/2018 at 5:57 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Unrelated note, but these complaints are really bringing up bad memories of Warhammer

I remember the fantasy ed where they decided "**** it, everything's random including charge distances and terrain"

And then if you played High Elves, your silverhelm Calvary were moved from core (fundamental building blocks of army, no limits other than points) to special (hard limits of X units) you got ****** for having all Calvary armies

And that's not even accounting for how inferior Silver Helms remained to Dragon Knights, the elite Calvary who had already been special units since the prior rulebook and were now competing directly with their inferiors for a place in your list...

 

Yeah, ffg ain't got **** on gw 

Hahaha. And that doesn't even scratch the paint on the cost incurred by 40k Squat players!!

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44 minutes ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

How many do you want me to name?

To be a fair comparison, be sure to include all the models needed in the new edition to be competitively viable that were not viable at all the previous edition.

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I really don't think the pricing is that bad. Besides the obvious GW comparison to which FFG is not even close, look at Infinity for example. Here in Australia the third edition rulebook is $99+, my LGS gave me a per-order price of $136 for a new XWMse core set and a rebel conversion kit (RRP after release $145). Now considering what you get with those 2 items (all the tokens, templates, dice and 3 models) and the Infinity rulebook is exactly that, a book and nothing else, I think that's pretty **** good value especially for something with a star wars license attached to it.

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On 5/4/2018 at 5:57 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Unrelated note, but these complaints are really bringing up bad memories of Warhammer

I remember the fantasy ed where they decided "**** it, everything's random including charge distances and terrain"

And then if you played High Elves, your silverhelm Calvary were moved from core (fundamental building blocks of army, no limits other than points) to special (hard limits of X units) you got ****** for having all Calvary armies

And that's not even accounting for how inferior Silver Helms remained to Dragon Knights, the elite Calvary who had already been special units since the prior rulebook and were now competing directly with their inferiors for a place in your list...

 

Yeah, ffg ain't got **** on gw 

thats the edition that made me sell my Huge armies of VC,DE, and Empire. there was so much crap moved for no reason and all the randomness, and the bloated horde style infantry rectangles over the smaller square formations. This and get out charged by freaking dwarfs because they rolled 12, screw you GW.

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Even if you had a large GW army with all the minis, they always included cool new units in the game.  They were usually pretty powerful and required.  So, Greenskins would get Arachnarok Spiders, giant Squigs, and all sorts of stuff.  So, you then had to pay GW prices for these new models.  Yeah, you didn't HAVE to, but they were the new power units in the army.

For those that have huge collections, I don't believe you need to buy more than one upgrade kit per faction.  The upgrade kits have enough to play a legal list (they say). So, until Epic comes out, the only time you will use more is non-official games.  You know someone is going to make conversion stickers for old dials you can download. Just do that for your huge collection of ships for your fun games.

Also, there will be upgrade kits with all but model for future waves.  So, just be patient and buy those upgrade kits.

There will also be swap meets for people to trade upgrades for ships they don't have with ones they need.  I will be happy to trade my Phantom stuff for Tie Bomber stuff.

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On 5/8/2018 at 11:11 AM, Dabirdisdaword said:

This. To everyone saying warhammer is worse: you're the ones not paying attention. I converted 5 armies (DE, craftworld, harlequin, tau, orks) over to 8th ed for less than I'll spend on a core and 1 conversion for 1 faction. 

So yeah this x wing 2.0 costs more than a gw edition change for 5 armies. Ffg is pricing worse than gee ***** dubs who were constantly mocked as the worst. That's not good.

If you are NOT playing competitively, you can just buy the indices for Xenos 1 and Xenos 2 for $50 and download the free core rules.... otherwise:

Orks codex hasn't come out yet, so you are using the Xenos Index, which is $25

Codices for rest are $40/each = $160

Full rulebook = $60 (which you would need for the Matched play rules, missions, detachment rules, strategems, etc)

Total = $245

Your statement is a bit misleading

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15 minutes ago, Kardek said:

If you are NOT playing competitively, you can just buy the indices for Xenos 1 and Xenos 2 for $50 and download the free core rules.... otherwise:

Orks codex hasn't come out yet, so you are using the Xenos Index, which is $25

Codices for rest are $40/each = $160

Full rulebook = $60 (which you would need for the Matched play rules, missions, detachment rules, strategems, etc)

Total = $245

Your statement is a bit misleading

I've been playing tourneys with index lists. Codex gives crutches that is all. 

50 for rules plus 25bucks let me play tourney. Another 25 let me play any of my armies. Your statement is a bit misleading on what's allowed in competitive play.

 

 

(That all being said I'm buying into 2.0 because I have more money than sense. Hello 5 gw armies. And the 2.0 rules look great so that what I'm saying to myself to justify the cost "I'm paying for the devs time on rules.")

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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Well, this should be interesting. All the hypothetical Warhammer cost comparisons can be a little less speculative and dated now that the new edition of Age of Sigmar has been announced. 

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On 5/8/2018 at 7:56 AM, heychadwick said:

Even if you had a large GW army with all the minis, they always included cool new units in the game.  They were usually pretty powerful and required.  So, Greenskins would get Arachnarok Spiders, giant Squigs, and all sorts of stuff.  So, you then had to pay GW prices for these new models.  Yeah, you didn't HAVE to, but they were the new power units in the army.

 

And.....Age of Sigmar just announced a new ruleset after only three years.

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Just now, AlexW said:

And.....Age of Sigmar just announced a new ruleset after only three years.

GW 's new model is endlessly releasing rules with minor changes, it has been since the 6th edition of 40k when the knight codex was replaced after 14 months.

They can't force existing players to buy new kits and they are not growing their playerbase because no kid can afford £500-700 to start an army.

But you can't use those models without the latest codex and the newest chapter approved, oh and don't forget the books for the allies you need because no army works well as a pure force anymore.

But yeah let's declare £40 for the faction kit to be the most expensive ever!!!!

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On 5/6/2018 at 5:54 PM, LordFajubi said:

This is exactly why I am NOT converting everything. No point if I want the new models. Actually the more I think about it I may just buy a starter and sell what I can to v1 purists. Gonna have a lot of poor cousins if this new line is visually superior. Can’t wait to see some of the new designs.

Got a picture of the T-65 or Arc-170 V2 Model?

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5 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Yeah no. a Warhammer edition change was always $100 in books plus a bunch of new miniatures, you'd be lucky to get away with less than $300.

Now this change isn't exactly cheap, but its hardly expensive.

 

4 hours ago, AlexW said:

And.....Age of Sigmar just announced a new ruleset after only three years.

 

4 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

GW 's new model is endlessly releasing rules with minor changes, it has been since the 6th edition of 40k when the knight codex was replaced after 14 months.

They can't force existing players to buy new kits and they are not growing their playerbase because no kid can afford £500-700 to start an army.

But you can't use those models without the latest codex and the newest chapter approved, oh and don't forget the books for the allies you need because no army works well as a pure force anymore.

But yeah let's declare £40 for the faction kit to be the most expensive ever!!!!

 

New edition Rules and updated Warscrolls for armies will be made available for free via the app, current Battletomes are still valid. So you don’t really need to buy anything extra unless you want the expanded rulebook with lore and so on. No doubt that’ll also be included for next to nothing in a new two army starter box, which judging by the original box will be around the $150 NZD mark with 40-50 new miniatures as an optional.

Of course the new rules could bring about other potential costs like the new spell system, but these would be purely speculative at the moment.

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49 minutes ago, NulEnvoid said:

New edition Rules and updated Warscrolls for armies will be made available for free via the app, current Battletomes are still valid. So you don’t really need to buy anything extra unless you want the expanded rulebook with lore and so on. No doubt that’ll also be included for next to nothing in a new two army starter box, which judging by the original box will be around the $150 NZD mark with 40-50 new miniatures as an optional.

Of course the new rules could bring about other potential costs like the new spell system, but these would be purely speculative at the moment.

Shhh, don't ruin their narrative!

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