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X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

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3 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

Kings of War is definitely a better game. It is also cheaper by far than Age of Sigmar prices. I know it will sound silly perhaps but with all the years and memories I have invested in Warhammer Fantasy Battles I just can't find any fun in fantasy miniatures. If they ever change their mind and bring back the Old World then I'd be right back but until then...just can't do it. It also didn't help that when GW did that to fantasy it absolutely killed off the small active community at my FLGS.

Yeah, I found I had to really take on the role of an ambassador for Kings of War in order to get games. But two people locally took it up so there's still some competition from time to time. I totally get where you're coming from with the motivation though, it took me ages to want to play again. But sooner or later something bites and you find yourself wanting to finish that unit of Vargheists.

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2 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

And here again is the "you didn't collect the game the right way, you deserve to pay more" attitude. 

Yeah, I have a lot of X Wings. But surely most people already have more than two? And B Wings? Remember when BBBBZ was a thing? I'll happily admit I'm on the end of the bell curve when it comes to collections, especially in the demographic that frequents this forum, but it only takes three X Wings or Y Wings or B Wings to push people into the "I need at least two conversion kits per faction" bracket. Three Defenders? Was that third Defender as equally "ill advised"? I think a lot of people are going to need four kits just to get back up to speed. 

I think most people are going to need at least two kits per faction anyway. At least this way the kits would be cheaper since there'd be less duplicate content.

It's a continuum. On one end FFG takes a loss on the conversion kits and gives them out for free. On the other they completely change the scale of the game and invalidate all 1.0 collections. You're never going to eliminate whiners, but the closer FFG gets to the "we're giving it away for free" end of the spectrum the more the whining dies off and the more strained and ridiculous it becomes.

I'll happily admit that FFG is sitting close to the middle of the spectrum, what I hate are self-righteous people on the forums telling us how trivial the cost is, or how it's good value for money, or how we should be grateful for the privilege of paying FFG hundreds of dollars to unlock our collections for 2.0. 

It's not cheap, it's not a privilege, I don't consider it value for money, and it's one **** of a friction point for the average consumer. The sticker shock factor here is enormous, judging from the feedback across the internet, I'd say it's having more impact than FFG anticipated.

But those players aren't using 4 B-Wings currently even if they own them. Chances are they aren't using even 1 B-Wing. So if they don't convert all 4 they're not really missing anything. You act as if people use their entire collections right now in 1E and they're not. Many of their ships just sit collecting dust anyway. 

If a person absolutely MUST convert them all well then fine. But that is a unique problem. Adapt. Sell off a small fraction of that and use the money to convert the rest and throw in some ebay shopping for whatever is left over. They have options. They really can't reasonably expect more.

FFG created the conversion kits to help as many people as possible and not to cater to everyone's personal collection. They made the conversion kits to cover the most reasonable builds in 2.0. And WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS YET. There may very well be no reason you would ever want 4 B-Wings in a 200 pt game for example. 

Edited by Tooka-cat

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Well I've just preordered 2 conversion kits plus a core set for the huge price of £77.92 here in the uk.

The best price I can find for the force awakens core set is £28.45.   So I could have bought 2.74 force awakens core sets for the same price.

 

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7 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

One being X-Wing and the other being Warhammer? 
Obviously X-Wing is the better value. You would need to pay me to make me play 40k ? … I think went somewhere wrong in your argumentation. ?

 

Fair enough, there’s  personal value and production value. I’m not going to debate what you should find more valuable personally. But production-wise it’s not really disputable.

 

7 hours ago, Porkchop Express said:

You also need 2 new codexes, one for each army (assuming they don't try and spread either of the armies over 2+ books).

 

Not with the included armies no, the 53 miniatures have two mini codex to cover the ones included plus some fluff. So you don’t even really need one, unless you decide to expand at a later date.

 

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

lol #fakenews defense.

Prove it misleading other than calling me a liar.

 

I’m really not sure how to respond to that, how old are you?

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I don't understand why do people need to make such a big deal about buying 2+ conversion kits... You don't have to buy them right away, so you can take your time. And if it's to get one or two o X specific cards because you have an unusually high number Y ships, then just buy those cards independently through eBay or something once they become available (as long as it adds up less than the conversion kit it's ok), and before that ask yourself "am I ever going to run 8104 copies of Y ship at the same time" (and often enough that I *need* to buy that many cards instead of asking a friend to lend me his?

I think the conversion kit is a good solution honestly. You're getting a ton of cards which -baring a mad spamming of the same ship should be enough for most lists- tokens, and bases (which they could have easily sold separately). They even threw a free list builder app with the chance of fixing updates on the fly.

When warmahordes changed edition, we had to buy a new card pack of updates which did not include doubles, much less tokens, AND had to pay for the list builder app...

Edited by RafaelNN
Grammar

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3 minutes ago, RafaelNN said:

When warmahordes changed edition, we had to buy a new card pack of updates which did not include doubles, much less tokens, AND had to pay for the list builder app...

 They do offer the cards free to collate as a PDF and then print out (or use digitally), but I agree their app is overpriced for the card packs, considering they’re free on their site, which is a bit weird. Luckily if you want a builder app there are a number of free third party ones with card info included as well, they’re just not as pretty.

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Just now, RafaelNN said:

I don't understand why do people need to make such a big deal about buying 2+ conversion kits... You don't have to buy them right away, so you can take your time. And if it's to get one or two o X specific cards because you have an unusually high number Y ships, then just buy those cards independently through eBay or something once they become available (as long as it adds up less than the conversion kit it's ok), and before that ask yourself "am I ever going to run 8104 copies of Y ship at the same time" (and often enough that I *need* to buy that many cards instead of asking a friend to lend me his?

I think the conversion kit is a good solution honestly. You're getting a ton of cards which -baring a mad spamming of the same ship should be enough for most lists- tokens, and bases (which they could have easily sold separately). They even threw a free list builder app with the chance of fixing updates on the fly.

When warmahordes changed edition, we had to buy a new card pack of updates which did not include doubles, much less tokens, AND had to pay for the list builder app...

I am not going to buy 2 conversion kits (even though my collection is large enough for 2) for a couple of reason.

  1. From what we can see is that all 1st edition ships will be released in 2.0. 
  2. With the exception of Epic (which is still in 1st edition and I will still gladly play that format) I will not be using the extent of my collection to play X-wing.

Honestly the only conversion kit I think you would need 2 (or more) is is you want to fly TIE swarm (8 TIE Fighters) in 2.0. but in that case you are going to be strictly Empire in terms of your collection. The conversion kits should still be in production until they get all 1.0 converted over.

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2 hours ago, NulEnvoid said:

 

Fair enough, there’s  personal value and production value. I’m not going to debate what you should find more valuable personally. But production-wise it’s not really disputable.

 

 

Not with the included armies no, the 53 miniatures have two mini codex to cover the ones included plus some fluff. So you don’t even really need one, unless you decide to expand at a later date.

 

 

I’m really not sure how to respond to that, how old are you?

Well yhen for Xwing 2 you only need the starter box (unless you plan to expand at a later date), so Xwing is cheaper.

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1 hour ago, Porkchop Express said:

Well yhen for Xwing 2 you only need the starter box (unless you plan to expand at a later date), so Xwing is cheaper.

Rather than argue about it, check out the  Warhammer 40,000: First Strike Introductory set which I can get cheaper new for comparison. The line of debate it pretty fruitless though, it tends to ignore the problem most people perceive as exitising, it’s not a what game can you start with cheaper issue.

Edited by NulEnvoid

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6 hours ago, Tooka-cat said:

 You act as if people use their entire collections right now in 1E and they're not. Many of their ships just sit collecting dust anyway. 

FFG created the conversion kits to help as many people as possible and not to cater to everyone's personal collection. They made the conversion kits to cover the most reasonable builds in 2.0.

False on both accounts.

I'm going to sit down today and play a game that features Z-95s, the ORD YT1300, Lambdas, And TIE Fighters.

As is usual, you conflate the entirety of the game with those that play 100/6 tournaments.  And at this point, so is FFG.  This is designed to fix the tounament meta, not kitchen table play.

I was fine with 1.0.  I might be more fine with 2.0.  But there is a  $500 bridge I now must cross.

And yes, I can jump in for the pittance of $100.

Remember how you toirnament players used to whine for years about the  $100 "Raider Tax " because you "had to have" Palp to play the game?

Also false, you could have made another list,  just like I can stay at 1.0.

But how quickly sympathy dies when you are getting what you want. 

6 hours ago, Bulwyf said:

 

This change from 1.0 to 2.0 is like comparing a nose bleed to a sucking chest wound to what Warhammer fans had to deal with.

And yet epistaxis is no fun at all.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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After running some simple numbers, I have determined that my 16 empire small ships + kit will run me $30 less than if I had started playing in 2.0 and eventually amassed the same collection. So, saving collected 1.0 has actually made my buy-in cheaper

Cost of core must still be accounted for, but I'd need it if I was starting from 2.0 too 

Note that's small ships only ($15, as opposed to new $20) and only from my modest collection.

Alternatively, ffg mentioned they want to reintegrate epic into 2.0. so that's probably coming. Keep your eyes peeled

Edited by ficklegreendice

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5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

After running some simple numbers, 

After running some very simple numbers himself, my brother realized running 8 b wings in Epic  (favorite ship, favorite playstyle) requires 4 converters. 

We'll be playing 1.0 for the foreseeable future. 

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34 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

Unless I’m very much mistaken all Epic play will be 1st Ed for a while.  The conversion kits for huge ships have not even been announced.

Nope.   Epic has always been under supported IMHO, so this is pretty much expected. 

OTOH, I'm sort of being officially told "You can wait to see how good 2.0 really is."

After Wave 14, FFG ain't gonna get any Meanie dollars for quite a while, it seems.

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6 minutes ago, DelGriffen said:

40k requires a 150 in just rules every two to 3 years. Your units may or may not be usable. I may or may not play 2.0, but if I don’t it won’t be because of the price. 

Not to mention the re-release of entire factions with new sculpts, at a slightly larger scale than the previous iteration...

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3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not to mention the re-release of entire factions with new sculpts, at a slightly larger scale than the previous iteration...

which makes you think, "neat! at least these models are so much better!"

but then you start paying as much money for 10 imperial state troopers as you used to spend for a full unit of 20

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

which makes you think, "neat! at least these models are so much better!"

but then you start paying as much money for 10 imperial state troopers as you used to spend for a full unit of 20

Have I already mentioned that the Y-Wing is a new sculpture and it is just $20.  ^_^
And it looks so much better than the old one. :D

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

which makes you think, "neat! at least these models are so much better!"
but then you start paying as much money for 10 imperial state troopers as you used to spend for a full unit of 20

I mean, you can't argue with the quality of GW's models.  The Dark Eldar - LOL, sorry, Drukari - range is absolutely phenomenal in terms of quality of the sculpts and variety.  But it's also so far removed from the previous range as to effectively render them obsolete.  The same thing goes for Primaris Space Marines, and let's not even mention what happened to Warhammer Fantasy Battle...

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6 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Have I already mentioned that the Y-Wing is a new sculpture and it is just $20.  ^_^
And it looks so much better than the old one. :D

yes, and it is just $5 more than the previous model

not twice the price

Edited by ficklegreendice

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4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

yes, and it is just $5 more than the previous model

not twice the price

After several price increases on the 1.0 models. Yes., not twice the price. Though in 2012 .. the MSRP new seems to be twice as much as the street price back than. ;)

Though street price is own already for pre-orders.
 

Regular Price: $19.95
Special Price:$15.99

 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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