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X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

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3 minutes ago, Tooka-cat said:

Correction. X-Wing WAS a codex hopping game. It is not any longer. That is a fundamental change with 2nd edition. You are not expected to keep up with five factions. Nor the likely SEVEN factions that they may end up with. 

So I'm not going to need a single upgrade card from a Rebel ship to help make my Imperial list competitive anymore? Cool ?

Cheers 

Baaa 

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39 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Time will tell if this is the right move, or if it is time to switch to a new (or old) game.

Come back to the dark side. 8th edition is calling...

Cheers 

Baaa 

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5 minutes ago, Baaa said:

So I'm not going to need a single upgrade card from a Rebel ship to help make my Imperial list competitive anymore? Cool ?

Cheers 

Baaa 

They have been quite clear that you will NOT need upgrade cards from another faction's ships to be competitive in your faction. You think you're being sarcastic but you are actually correct. 

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1 hour ago, Astech said:

but X-wing's rule book is printed in a modular manner on various cards, such that they don't form a money-grubbing scandal a la GW products.

See, this is the funny thing. The price of the upgrade is so high that X Wing and GW are comparable, and in many ways X Wing is more expensive.

Depending on your collection, X Wing is MUCH more expensive. If I were to upgrade my entire Rebel collection I would need the starter set, three conversion kits, and the Epic kit when it is released. Putting all the rules in a book instead of cards is actually a much more consumer-friendly method of distribution.

Some people say that I get my entire collection updated for $90 and that's a bargain.

Actually, I'm paying $90 to lose three quarters of my collection. That's not a bargain.

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6 minutes ago, Tooka-cat said:

They have been quite clear that you will NOT need upgrade cards from another faction's ships to be competitive in your faction. You think you're being sarcastic but you are actually correct. 

See if that holds true once the meta is adjusted. The only way that'll work if they make all upgrades faction specific. Have they said they'll do that? 

Cheers 

Baaa

Edited by Baaa

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3 minutes ago, Baaa said:

See if that holds true once the meta is adjusted. The only way that'll work if they make all upgrades faction specific. Have they said they'Lloyd do that? 

Cheers 

Baaa

It also works if all non-faction specific upgrades are put into sets for all factions in a timely manner. 

Edited by Tooka-cat

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18 minutes ago, Baaa said:

Come back to the dark side. 8th edition is calling... 

8th Ed is still basically a late 80s / early 90s game.  My taste in systems has moved on significantly since then, so it’s a hard no from me however lovely the new Harlequin models are.

Edit:

If the new Kill Team is more Shadespire 40K than Warhammer then I’ll be interested in that.

Edited by Major Tom

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4 minutes ago, Tooka-cat said:

It also works if all non-faction specific upgrades are put into sets for all factions in a timely manner. 

Are they going to do that? If so it's a massive shift in their marketing strategy. 

Cheers 

Baaa 

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Just now, Major Tom said:

8th Ed is still basically a late 80s / early 90s game.  My taste in systems has moved on significantly since then, so it’s a hard no from me however lovely the new Harlequin models are.

But have you held them yet? 

Cheers 

Baaa 

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Just now, Baaa said:

Are they going to do that? If so it's a massive shift in their marketing strategy. 

Cheers 

Baaa 

That is what they are saying. Obviously we won't know until 2.0 has been out for awhile but they are specifically going out of their way to say that is the case. 

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To me, it all boils down to choices.

FFG chooses to develop a second edition. They might alienate the player base, or keep it steady, maybe even grow it a little. We'll see in due time. It might be the end of X-Wing, simply the end of X-Wing as we know it, or not any form of end at all. Again, we'll see.

FFG chooses to develop an upgrade kit. That's funny. Even though the company puts a price tag on it; they had to develop the edition, design the new cards and dials and what not, the printer is unlikely to perform the task out of charity as well, and the crew of the boat it is on eventually will also need to eat, even though all of that, they could just have skipped the upgrade kits. For some, the upgrade kits will be next to worthless, as they will have way too many cards and dials for their small, casual collection, for others the expense of the kits will be huge, as they have to buy two, three, maybe more - per faction - to get their huge collections viable again.

But being viable is also a choice. I don't attend tournaments. A couple of friends have recently learned the game through me, and they liked the idea of 4 TIEs against 2 X-Wings, or four TIEs against one crewed and upgraded Falcon like in the movie. I can choose to keep playing Edition 1, until such time I think getting into Edition 2 is worthwhile. Or desirable. I must admit I have seen a couple of things I liked about 2nd edition already. As such, my choice to convert might come sooner rather than later. And having made the choice to pursue more hobbies, I might only have to scour the internet for a few extra TIE Fighter and X-Wing/Y-Wing conversions. The rest neatly falls within the range of a single upgrade kit (per faction...). I could turn bitter about this. Five factions in my collection, of which two (Rebels and Imperials) have a couple of spare ships which would otherwise give me another string of choices in life. Two extra conversion kits or not? Secondary market or not? Downsize the collection or not? Get a fourth job or not?

Choices, choices, choices.

The same goes for Warhammer (40K). I made a deliberate choice to have about 7 Chaos armies for WH40K (Nurgle marines, new Death Guard, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Noise Marines, Black Legion, unnamed generic previous attempt at Undivided marines) with a smidge of Daemons in there. Right now, from 7th to 8th, that would be a new core rulebook, a Chaos Space Marines codex, a Death Guard codex and a Thousand Sons codex. But somewhere in the last 30 years or so, I also chose to have Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and about a Citadel case worth of custom chapter Space marines. Three out of four codices for that are available. Did I mention my Eldar and Dark Eldar? Necrons? A sizable Imperial Guard and Tyranid force? Choices. I don't go on holiday three time per year minimum. And I choose not to complain about that too, as I have an expensive, yet creative hobby that has lead to many friendships, some all over my country.

The missus and I entered a new phase, with a choice pregnancy. I chose to downgrade my amount of hobby time and money in a couple of months. But then again, in time the little rugrat will wonder what is happening in the Mancave that daddy is maintaining up there, in the attic. Then there will be a choice of teaching X-Wing 1, X-Wing 2, or maybe even X-Wing 3 or 4 by that time. Or any other game that I have chosen not to throw out all the rules and older materials for.

Choices, choices, choices. And each makes their own.

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7 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

so suddenly i need to spend $350 to update, and thats if i dont update first order and resistance(of which i only have the TFA core set) fyi thats $350 to update an $1100 collection, so 30% down just to use what I already have

You're looking at this wrong. You get to play with $1100 worth of Xwing 2.0 for only $350. That's a 70% discount. Plus you can also play with  $1100 worth of 1.0 for as long as you like

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1 hour ago, Tooka-cat said:

That is what they are saying. Obviously we won't know until 2.0 has been out for awhile but they are specifically going out of their way to say that is the case. 

Which brings me back to the point I made earlier; the competitive meta will decide whether or not 2nd becomes the "codex hopping" game that 1st is.

If what you're saying holds up it obviously won't affect people who only ever play casual; but how many casual players at the moment only own ships from one faction? 

Cheers 

Baaa 

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18 minutes ago, Baaa said:

Which brings me back to the point I made earlier; the competitive meta will decide whether or not 2nd becomes the "codex hopping" game that 1st is.

If what you're saying holds up it obviously won't affect people who only ever play casual; but how many casual players at the moment only own ships from one faction? 

Cheers 

Baaa 

It won't matter what the meta is if you have access to all upgrade cards through just your faction's sets. 

It's a fair point that many casual players have multiple factions. X-Wing is unique in being probably the only miniature war game where that is so. On the flip side everything else about the game is a lot more casual friendly. Given the depth of problems 1st edition had, ESPECIALLY for casual players, this had to happen some day. How many casual players were turned off from playing at their local game store because everyone else was playing uber meta builds? And if you're so super casual that you don't care about playing at local game store then you don't really need to upgrade at all if you don't want to. Or you can space out when you buy the conversion kits. 

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Ultimately, the reason the conversion stings is 1.0 was designed to force players to buy everything from every faction.  That was fine for a while, but around the launch of Scum the game got large enough where faction specialization should have become a thing, but the business model never changed to support it.  The game has been weighing itself down with stuff for quite a while now and hugely in need of a break point and if anything, not doing this 3 years ago has made the transition a lot more painful.

That said, this is a very better late than never kind of change and its an opportunity for players to reassess their collections and see what they really need.  Yeah, there's only half the number of B-Wings I own in the conversion kit, but do I actually need more than 2 B-Wings in the new edition?  For that matter, do I actually need more than 2 B-Wings now?  Do I still want all those Scum ships I own but almost never fly?  Minis are something that are easy to horde over time, but every once in a while its good to go through and decide what you really want and what its time to get rid of.  Get just one conversion kit, get play out of it, then get more if you want more.  Don't buy a bunch of kits to stay up to date on ships you won't actually play until you need to buy 3rd edition upgrades.

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Okay, so I will be up front and say that I am one who will not be upgrading to 2E but in no way will be "quitting" 1E. 

It seems like this is probably the best opportunity for FFG to give this game a tune-up. They have expanded this game to the point where they are, for all intents and purposes, out of ships (yes, I know, there are 1000s of ships from the EU, etc, but they've tapped out all of the cinematic and 'traditional' Star Wars ships). This reset lets them bring back the classics while waiting for some new stuff from the Disney cinematic behemoth to slow-drip out. 

What I think will be interesting is the tournament scene for the 6~9 months (or so) when all of the veteran players will have "access" to their 1E collections and the 2E conversion upgrades, while brand new players may be limited to what has been released in 2E (this is predicated on the assumption that a brand new player will only chose to buy 2E to avoid 1E+conversion purchases). Would that discourage new players right off the bat from store play? 1E, as it stands, is in that predicament. I just wonder if it's as much the nature of competition (and rampant consumerism ... "I need to buy moar container ships to get moar upgradez for the ship Rey was seen looking at for 3 seconds during the last film, then I'll totally destory the meta!!!!1") than anything.

Anyway, I'm rambling. 

Edited by puntspeedchunk

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PS - I only mention my "status" with the game, because it seems like the shock of 2E has devolved these forums into polarized bickering:

Of those staying with 1E - If you do not spend your money exactly as I tell you that you should, you must be quitter and traitor to FFG. BLOOD-TRAITOR!

Of those upgrading to 2E - Has your love of all things FFG blinded you to the clear money-grab that is the Asmodee-NA federation? Only pre-buyout FFG is the purest FFG. A simpler time, a more enjoyable time. BLOOD-TRAITOR!

Remember when we used to argue about how many M3-As could be squeezed into a 100 pt list and put up a fight. Okay, maybe not ...

Point is, I don't mind the changes and the overhaul - but I don't feel the need to upgrade. You had me at 1E.

Edited by puntspeedchunk

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1 minute ago, Stefan said:

To the original question: It's certainly not. I have a fairly high amount of ships, and two conversion kits (one Rebel, one Imperial) cover more than 90% of it. The rest I'll get on the secondary market. This is hugely overblown.

But that's the point, the title of the thread is a question; not a statement as some people have made out.

It's perfect for hyperbole. 

Cheers 

Baaa

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5 minutes ago, Stefan said:

To the original question: It's certainly not. I have a fairly high amount of ships, and two conversion kits (one Rebel, one Imperial) cover more than 90% of it. The rest I'll get on the secondary market. This is hugely overblown.

Agreed. While you could get away with < $100 for a GW edition change, it's still apples to oranges to a degree. With X-wing, so many of us ended up with 3+ factions (including FO and Resistance). It would be more like having to buy a lot of codices. It's only really comparable if you have 1 faction for both. Then, I would argue that it's a wash or favors X-wing. 

Of course, with GW you probably "need" to update models to fit whatever benefits they give to their newest and improved-ested plastics and sculpts. "Now with 10000% more parts!" And those are still miles above X-wing in terms of cost (for the fancy ones, not the base army units). I have always liked X-wing for that. While FFG seeds junk ships with must-have upgrades, the cost is tied more to ship base size than utility in the army (GW HQ/captain/commanders - or whatever they are called - can be just silly in price for the size of the figure).

Edited by puntspeedchunk

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8 hours ago, Bulwyf said:

This is just wrong. You can have 10,000 models in your Warhammer army and still only need the core rulebook and your army codex to play in every edition. You never had to "convert" each one of your ships in order to play for any edition.

The OP is correct. I've played Warhammer Fantasy Battles in the mid 1980's and have played a plethora of miniature games since. None of them have been this costly in terms of a simple edition change. That includes games that had radical new rules or options in edition changes. I have, for instance, over 400 individual Space Wolves models for Warhammer 40k. It only cost me a new rulebook and an army book (once it is released for current edition 40k) to make all of those models "converted" for the current edition.

 New rule book and codex was about...$150

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5 hours ago, Baaa said:

But have you held them yet? 

Cheers 

Baaa 

Nope, but I’ve seen the sprues.  Too much fiddly nonsense for me even if I could stomach the ruleset.  Legion, Rune Wars and Shadespire are as complicated as I want my minis to be to assemble.

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