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Zensyntax

X Wing 2.0, the most expensive version change for a miniature game in the history of gaming?

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I came in here to write a counter point to yours, but I really cannot make sense of their thought with the pricing.  I really think a total reset is the best thing for the future of the game and its balance, but I can think of nothing that justifies the pricing for the conversion kits.  

The people buying the conversion kits are the people who have already dumped hundreds of dollars into this game over the years.  They are the people who enabled this company to create a version two in the first place through their support of the game.  New players don't need the kits since they will not come with ships.  Cut the veteran players a break and welcome them into the new edition by giving them a good deal on these conversion kits.  

They know they have the older players over a barrel and they can charge whatever they want for the conversion kits, but it just seems like a bad move to me to start the new version with such a bad PR move.

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3 minutes ago, GizmotronX5000 said:

If all this was was a rules change, sure. But it's not. Anecdote here, but I bought almost exclusively rebel, and 1 kit covers 90% of the ships I have. That's $50 to convert my ships and $40 for the new core set to convert my nearly $700 of ships. I would MUCH prefer this to the constant slow drip of ship fix re-releases.

If you're in the sweet spot (1 faction, 1-2 of each ship), it's great.

If your collection is too small, too large, or across multiple factions, it adds up fast.

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17 minutes ago, Zensyntax said:

I've played miniature games for more than 20 years, and to my knowledge this is the most expensive version change for a player of a miniature game in the history of miniature games.  Absolute minimum conversion cost of 1 core set and 1 conversion pack = $100, and a conversion cost for someone with a complete set of current ships 1 core set + 5 conversion packs (includes resistance and first order) = $300.  Honestly, has any miniature game ever come close to this type of conversion cost with a version change?  New rule books for a mini game typically cost $40, and that's it.

 

I get it, the rule changes seem interesting and beneficial, but so many other miniature games do regular rule updates and post the rules for free online - Dark Age, Wrath of Kings, Infinity just to name a few.  These rule changes don't need existing players to pay hundreds of dollars to institute, and the companies that offer the improved rules for free make their profit on adding new players to the game.  Why are downloadable files of new pilot cards or dial changes not a possibility? Issue them alongside the nicer conversion kits and let the players make their choice if they want to buy the full production value or the self-printed option.

 

Looking not at the rule changes, but the design changes to the game, it feels that FFG took every opportunity to force current players to make a purchase to continue to play the game.  The maneuver dial change and maneuver template change in particular seem to have very thin justification but require substantial additional purchases by players.  Was there some uproar over maneuver dials being too small that I missed?  A scandal at Worlds with rampant barrel role abuse that required a new plastic flight base?

There are some problems with your math. 

First, the new core set costs about $40, meaning on kit and core set is about $90.

Second, we have had confirmation that the First Order and Resistance converters will be priced less than the pervious kits, meaning your ending total of $300 is too high.

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Unrelated note, but these complaints are really bringing up bad memories of Warhammer

I remember the fantasy ed where they decided "**** it, everything's random including charge distances and terrain"

And then if you played High Elves, your silverhelm Calvary were moved from core (fundamental building blocks of army, no limits other than points) to special (hard limits of X units) you got ****** for having all Calvary armies

And that's not even accounting for how inferior Silver Helms remained to Dragon Knights, the elite Calvary who had already been special units since the prior rulebook and were now competing directly with their inferiors for a place in your list...

 

Yeah, ffg ain't got **** on gw 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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5 minutes ago, Max Teranous said:

Not even close. 8th ed 40k rules alone runs to over $1000 dollars so far (assuming you had all codexes in 7th and wanted to replace them all)

Yeah, I came to the conclusion that the OP, in their "20 years" of playing miniatures, had never touched either Warhammer Fantasy or 40,000. If they had they wouldn't have made the claim they did in their OP.

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9 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

Yeah, I came to the conclusion that the OP, in their "20 years" of playing miniatures, had never touched either Warhammer Fantasy or 40,000. If they had they wouldn't have made the claim they did in their OP.

Yeah they never felt the pain of paying several hundred simoleons for a limited edition hardback for a new version of their favourite army, only for them to redo the army again 18 months later, invalidating the book.

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This is the way I see it.

FFG create a rules system about space dogfights.

They then sell you a new ship every few months, with new upgrades and skills and weapons.. even though the rules don't need any more upgrades or additions. 

Soon they are creating upgrades simply because they HAVE to. They are't necessary, but every new ship must have a new card with it.

Soon the rules are bloated, falling apart because of poor play testing, and even more upgrades keep on coming.

FFG realise that they have screwed the game up by constantly introducing new rules, so decide to reboot the game with a new rules set. which unnecessarily changes lots of things in minor cosmetic ways... so they can charge all the customers in their game £200+

That's right. THEY screw up the rules, then charge YOU £200+ to fix them.

Once they finish counting their wealth, you better believe X-WIng 3.0 is on the way, because every few years they will be doing this again. SO buy your 2.0 stuff fast people, before the 3.0 conversion kits hit the stands.

DISGUSTING! Get out now, while you can...

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19 minutes ago, Darth 2Face said:

I guess the alternative for FFG is to release 2.0 without the conversion kit, so you would spend at least $20 per ship to recreate your existing collection.

The alternative is for FFG not to screw over their customer base and think they can get away with it. Will the new players joining the hobby exceed the old ones leaving it? Only time will tell I guess... and support from a few play testers and FFG employees isn't going to help them.

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Considering a conversion pack and a new core set, heck 2conversion packs, are the same price as many core sets for other miniature games, I’m gonna say no.  Further, those games core sets offer a fraction of the full game experience x wing does at the same price points.  More, most of those other games seem to intentionally play with balance to influence buying.  Saying the core rulebook for game X is $xx is not an honest comparison, and I’m shocked you’d make the comparison if you’ve been playing these games for 20 years.

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I’ve commented on another thread that I don’t plan to convert. I honestly see no reason to. It would cost me nearly $200 to make it so that I can play with things that I can already play with, but in a SLIGHTLY different way.  Or, I can play with my existing collection, as is, and spent the same $200 on other things. 

I can see some good coming of FFGs r design of the game, particularly for the competitive crowd, so I will not diss or criticize the effort. However, deeply invested in 1.0 as I am, and having no idea problem with the game it on a casual level, the expense seems needless and gratuitous to me. $200 is a lot of money to spend for a fix I don’t need. 

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50 minutes ago, madquest8 said:

This is the way I see it.

FFG create a rules system about space dogfights.

They then sell you a new ship every few months, with new upgrades and skills and weapons.. even though the rules don't need any more upgrades or additions. 

Soon they are creating upgrades simply because they HAVE to. They are't necessary, but every new ship must have a new card with it.

Soon the rules are bloated, falling apart because of poor play testing, and even more upgrades keep on coming.

FFG realise that they have screwed the game up by constantly introducing new rules, so decide to reboot the game with a new rules set. which unnecessarily changes lots of things in minor cosmetic ways... so they can charge all the customers in their game £200+

That's right. THEY screw up the rules, then charge YOU £200+ to fix them.

Once they finish counting their wealth, you better believe X-WIng 3.0 is on the way, because every few years they will be doing this again. SO buy your 2.0 stuff fast people, before the 3.0 conversion kits hit the stands.

DISGUSTING! Get out now, while you can...

You're quite right. Personally I won't be complaining about v2. The game was dead here anyway but even if there was some interest I'd now simply stop playing if this "upgrade" is essential. No arguing, no flame wars with people on the internet I will never meet, no complaints. Nothing. I will just keep my money in my wallet and the ships in storage. In truth they've been there a long time now, the power creep, never ending FAQs, obscure ships making games look nothing like Star Wars and the game becoming more a collectable card game than a dogfighting game killed it here.

I have Armada and umpteen historical armies ranging from Alexander the Great to the Spanish Civil War, plenty of other things to play and I won't be paying out for a fix for a game I didn't break. I've no criticism of those that do buy in but for me it's a non starter. Nobody wants to play it anymore here and for that, the blame lies with FFG.

Edited by Soviet65

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