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haritos

I don't like the changes to the evade action

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Evade was already the weaker alternative to focus. It all depended on what you are flying and how many green dice you had, but overall, you would see the focus action a lot more.

Now they change evade so it doesn't add an evade result, it converts a green die to evade. Isn't that very, very weak? I think the cases where we choose to evade instead of focus will be even less now, unless the evade action is linked nicely with barrel rolls or boost.

I think this is the only change I 've seen that doesn't really seem necessary. 

 

EDIT: Seeing some replies, I think it is important to remind that the Evade action doesn't exist in isolation, I believe it is important to keep in mind that unless you can do both, it directly competes with the focus action and all it brings to the table (defense and offence wise).

Edited by haritos

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It's necessary because you can still stack focus with evade

Like with two tubes (Jan crew is now jyn) or with Palpatine throwing force focus to any ship that can evade 

Or if we ever get a force sensative pilot that can evade

Or stacking with other synergy like selflessness 

And we don't want super durable, impossible to hit ships running around again. That's why we're at 2.0 in the first place 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 minute ago, haritos said:

Evade was already the weaker alternative to focus. It all depended on what you are flying and how many green dice you had, but overall, you would see the focus action a lot more.

Now they change evade so it doesn't add an evade result, it converts a green die to evade. Isn't that very, very weak? I think the cases where we choose to evade instead of focus will be even less now, unless the evade action is linked nicely with barrel rolls or boost.

I think this is the only change I 've seen that doesn't really seem necessary. 

How many times have you A. rolled all symbols on your green dice. and B. needed more than that to evade the attack?

I think you will find most of the examples are large-based ships (see: Ghost)

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

It's necessary because you can still stack focus with evade

Like with two tubes (Jan crew is now jyn) or with Palpatine throwing force focus to any ship that can evade 

And we don't want super durable, impossible to hit ships running around again. That's why we're at 2.0 in the first place 

Basically this too.

Makes ships easier to hit, and a set limit of the number of hits you have to get to deal at least some damage.

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I assume the evade change is targeted at highly defensive low agility ships, like Fat Han or the various defensive Ghost builds. (Especially when you look at the change to reinforce that's happening as well). It doesn't matter very much to traditional high-agility ships that might take the evade action.

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Evade was made worse for low agility ships and barely nerfed for high agility ships.

on something with 3 evade dice its probably the same (odd case where you roll all 3 evades) but on a ship with one agility it's much worse.

This makes a lot of sense balance wise, there were a few ships (falcon, ghost) that stacked ridiculous defense on a not so nimble ship.

The change is good in my mind. 

Edited by Icelom

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Just now, kraedin said:

I assume the evade change is targeted at highly defensive low agility ships, like Fat Han or the various defensive Ghost builds. (Especially when you look at the change to reinforce that's happening as well). It doesn't matter very much to traditional high-agility ships that might take the evade action.

Very much this.  Wisper and Stealth Device Soontir are almost unaffected, but ghost, Falcon, and Caster are all hurt by this.

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1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

And I woudln't be surprised to see Reinforce on the ghost in 2.0

Reinforce got nerfed as well, so that's ok (it now reduces damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 and the arc restrictions are much harder any of the firing ship in the other arc and it ignores reinforce)

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1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

Very much this.  Wisper and Stealth Device Soontir are almost unaffected, but ghost, Falcon, and Caster are all hurt by this.

 

The Soontir we know and love is gone.  Now to get that Focus token you have to get someone in your bullseye.

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2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

And I woudln't be surprised to see Reinforce on the ghost in 2.0

Probably, although note that even reinforce got hit with the nerf bat - it reduces damage by 1, to a minimum of 1.  So shooting at a ship relying on reinforce for defense, you're practically guaranteed to land some damage with every shot.

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2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

And I woudln't be surprised to see Reinforce on the ghost in 2.0

yeah, thankfully they reworked reinforced to make it a minimum of 1 damage (so 2 die ships can still do damage) and added flanking which can bypass reinfoce.

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I agree. They seemed to have made evade less effective and it didn't have to be. It was great just the way it was. However, even though evade seems to have been weakened, we have not been able play 2.0 yet, so maybe it will all make more sense when we finally start playing 2.0. We will see.

Edited by RayGuns

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1 minute ago, Icelom said:

Reinforce got nerfed as well, so that's ok (it now reduces damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 and the arc restrictions are much harder any of the firing ship in the other arc and it ignores reinforce)

 

Just now, xanderf said:

Probably, although note that even reinforce got hit with the nerf bat - it reduces damage by 1, to a minimum of 1.  So shooting at a ship relying on reinforce for defense, you're practically guaranteed to land some damage with every shot.

Yah I know, but at least reinforce actually WORKS on a 0 agility ship, where the evade action is literally useless unless you're at range 3 and/or obstructed, and even then not very good.

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It's basically replacing autothrusters for a majority of ships that would have access to both of them.  Throw a blank on your green?  Use the evade to change it.  Bombs and turrets are seriously reduced in v2 so things like Interceptors are going to be coming back.  We don't want them to be too tanky and run into Soontir issues all over again.

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I feel the only reason to take a evade token is if you are force sensitive as I think you can spend a Force token to change a focus to a hit/evade or if you have a card like expertise.

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1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

 

Yah I know, but at least reinforce actually WORKS on a 0 agility ship, where the evade action is literally useless unless you're at range 3 and/or obstructed, and even then not very good.

'Reinforce' didn't exist as an option when the first large-base ships came out, which is (IMHO), the only reason they got the 'evade' action in the first place.  What became the reinforce mechanic is really what they should have had from day 1.

Sort of like the mobile fire arcs - FFG was just in such a rush to get the Falcon out in early waves that it got shipped with half-baked mechanics, that have had the "best" way of implementing them only recently been added to the game.

I'd be a bit surprised if we ever saw another large-base ship with the 'evade' action instead of 'reinforce' - it was just a legacy of an earlier design time when fewer options were available.

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13 minutes ago, haritos said:

Evade was already the weaker alternative to focus. It all depended on what you are flying and how many green dice you had, but overall, you would see the focus action a lot more.

Now they change evade so it doesn't add an evade result, it converts a green die to evade. Isn't that very, very weak? I think the cases where we choose to evade instead of focus will be even less now, unless the evade action is linked nicely with barrel rolls or boost.

I think this is the only change I 've seen that doesn't really seem necessary. 

It's pretty much exactly the same if you don't max out your dice.

Especially as focus/evade stacking isn't a thing any more.

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6 minutes ago, Dengars Toilet Paper said:

I feel the only reason to take a evade token is if you are force sensitive as I think you can spend a Force token to change a focus to a hit/evade or if you have a card like expertise.

Or if you're 1 agi and don't want to roll a blank (which we know is every side of every green die)

Or if you're a phantom. You can spend unused evades at the end phase to cloak, so not much reason to take the cloak action

Unless they can remove your evade with jam etc.

Edited by ficklegreendice

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3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Or if you're 1 agi and don't want to roll a blank (which we know is every side of every green die)

Or if you're a phantom. You can spend unused evades at the end phase to cloak, so not much reason to take the cloak action

Unless they can remove your evade with jam etc.

Tht as well ? 

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8 minutes ago, xanderf said:

'Reinforce' didn't exist as an option when the first large-base ships came out, which is (IMHO), the only reason they got the 'evade' action in the first place.  What became the reinforce mechanic is really what they should have had from day 1.

Sort of like the mobile fire arcs - FFG was just in such a rush to get the Falcon out in early waves that it got shipped with half-baked mechanics, that have had the "best" way of implementing them only recently been added to the game.

I'd be a bit surprised if we ever saw another large-base ship with the 'evade' action instead of 'reinforce' - it was just a legacy of an earlier design time when fewer options were available.

I could see the shadowcaster keeping the evade action

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3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I could see the shadowcaster keeping the evade action

Kinda doubt it - even the Firespray lost the 'evade', and it's smaller and more agile (getting dropped to a Medium base, even).  Instead, it has a red 'reinforce'.

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