Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Darth Meanie

I Don't Get It

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, direweasel said:

MM=Miniature Market.  They don't have the 2e stuff yet of course, but all their X Wing stuff is typically 20% off or so, so the assumption is that these will be as well once they come out.

Not to sound like a walking billboard for them or anything, but I will vouch for their customer service.  They carry a LOT of gaming stuff, and they're almost always the cheapest way to get it, less than Amazon 90% of the time, and with better stock.  SO if your game store is sold out or whatever, this is definitely a good way to go.

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/

They have second edition up (i checked before I posted), $40 conversion kits, $32 core set

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults?q=x-wing+second+edition

Sadly for me, living in alaska means the shipping costs more than the discount and I don't qualify for the free shipping for spending enough.

Edited by VanderLegion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BigBadAndy said:

 

And arguing over this is pointless because the real issue is not $40 or $90 or $200 - it’s what we get in value for the money.

 

I agree with your idea but would phrase it a little differently: it's what we personally value for the money that matters.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Keep the Initiative spread 1-9.  Reducing it to 1-6 really isn't that meaningful for how the game is played.

Bump the point spread to 200.  I can multiple old cards by 2.

Keep printing the points and upgrade slots on the cards.  The devs know what they are going to be at release.  Tournament players understand these are first-pass only.

Change the appearance of 2.0 components as they have been.  New dials, new cards, etc.

Create the new damage deck and sell it separately (like they always have done for dice, of all the useless components to put in a separate blister).

Add the 2 factions.

Remove the Firespray from the Imps.

Ban Poons, VI, TLT, etc.

Add in all the special abilities, base changes, medium stands, etc. etc. etc.

Players who want the best of the best will buy the conversion kits to upgrade immediately.

I can only assume that all ships will eventually see a 2.0 packaging release.  At that point, a player can:

A.  Continue to play old PS 8 Luke with a cruddy T-65 dial

or

B.  Upgrade to new PS 8 Luke with Force abilities and a better dial.

A.  Continue to play the ARC 170 on a small base with the old dial

or

B.  Upgrade to the new ARC 170 on a medium base and a new dial.

C.  The new Resistance A-Wing would then have Initiative 1-9, double points, and an upgrade bar to more seamlessly match old materials.

Tournament players are required to use the app (as they are now) and have the correct components (as they always have been).

But casual players could see both sets of gaming materials coexisting in a single battlefield.

I appreciate that you have an alternative and can see how others would prefer this model. However, I've experienced this type of transition before and I would stop playing if FFG introduced 2e this way. Heroclix did it twice. I stuck with it the first time, but quickly learned that the resulting power creep for the figures designed with the new rules made my older figures obsolete and virtually unplayable, despite the fact that the old figures could technically be played under the new rule set. The next time Heroclix made drastic rule changes that still allowed old figures, I sold my collection and quit the game.

My point isn't that your alternative isn't valid, but that there isn't a perfect solution. If FFG made changes based on your ideas, I would leave the game. However, they may lose you with the current model. Whatever they do, they are losing someone. It really comes down to how to keep the most current players while making the game more enticing for new players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Exactly how long is FFG required to support 1.0 before people won't b!tch?  Is the answer "forever"?  Seems like it, and that's obviously unreasonable.

Exactly how cheap does FFG have to make it to re-use existing models in 2.0?  Is it less than $1 per ship?  Is it free?  Seems like it, and that's obviously unreasonable.

Look, this isn't a threat -- because, honestly, who care about me? -- but I'm giving it a couple more days, and if people are still making the same obviously unreasonable arguments, my Ignore List is going to start growing.  I mean, do you really want to be on a list that currently only Marineaver -- who has the lowest ratio of useful words to b!tching I have literally ever seen -- is on?

Edited by Jeff Wilder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you people seriously expect ffg to support 1E after 2E drops you are seriously daft....just saying...

Not a SINGLE gaming company out there that has put out a new edition has given two hoots about the old ones other than copyright stuff. Once 2E is a thing, 1E will not be (in fact, theres 2 separate Products pages atm, i suspect 1E to vanish within a week of 2E on that page)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

They have second edition up (i checked before I posted), $40 conversion kits, $32 core set

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults?q=x-wing+second+edition

Sadly for me, living in alaska means the shipping costs more than the discount and I don't qualify for the free shipping for spending enough.

Wow, that's outstanding! 

(That they're already running, not that you can't use them effectively.  That part sucks. )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, direweasel said:

Wow, that's outstanding! 

(That they're already running, not that you can't use them effectively.  That part sucks. )

 

My plan is to try to win store credit at tournamnets between now and then and see if I can supplement my purhcases that way instead :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

I’m afraid a statement like this is pretty much never helpful.  What he’s complaining about is not just the cost, it’s the value, the hassle and the feeling of return on investment.  I have plenty of money.  If I spend $1000 on conversion kits on launch day my kids will still eat, the mortgage will still get payed and my wife won’t even yell at me.  But I won’tfeel good about it.  I won’t feel like it was a good use of my money and I won’t feel like I got good value for my investment.  From where I sit the changes to 2.0 seem nice to have but not necessary. I will still likely spend most of my time playing house rules scenarios with my family and not worrying about the meta because who the heck is going to choose to run three jumpmasters or a bombing K wing in a for fun game?

its all just the same thing over and over. From my point of view it’s a low investment with not a great return.  Unfortunately, I feel compelled because I want to keep up with the active community and that’s not making me very happy.

Ditto.

57 minutes ago, KOG7777 said:

. But these conversion kits won't be on sale.

They will be for me, if I convert.

There is no way I will go 2.0 until those kits are so massively on sale that CoolStuff can't even post the price until you load them in the cart.

27 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Exactly how long is FFG required to support 1.0 before people won't b!tch? 

Not supporting is not the same as rendering obsolete, which is what happened.  But, since I don't want to be unfriended, I'll just let it lie from here forward.

54 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

@Darth Meanie you really need to put your energies into something more positive.  May I suggest you spearhead a 1.0 continuation community dedicated to keeping 1.0 going.  That’s how you’re gonna win.  Not fighting what you hate, saving what you love.

May the Force be with you  

And this is competely valid.

Thanks, Sasajak.  I could use some Jedi wisdom today.  (yeah, OK, Rose isn;t a Jedi.)

May the 4th B with U.

Edited by Darth Meanie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Converting my ENTIRE fleet to 2edition will require 2 conversion kits for each of the 3 the fractions : 6*$50 = $300

For a normal wave I would get 2 of each ship (usually 3 small ships and 1 large): 2*3*$15+2*$40= $170 ,plus I would need a 2* an Ace (fix) expansion: 2*$30 = $60. In total $230.

In comparison: $300 for 2edition versus $230 for a wave+fix, I will take that 2 edtion:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MaxPower said:

2017: ffg screwed up a ship... losing 100$ for that sucks.

2017-2018: overcompensation screwed up the game

2018: ffg redesigns the WHOLE GAME. ~15% of my initial investment seems worth it. After all these things happened before and usually led to better balanced games (descent 1.0 -> 2.0 and also somewhat IA).

Thats the thing, after seeing the gameplay videos, it does not look a complete redesign at all. In a video game, this would be considered a big patch at most, not an xpac or a sequel... I can understand the new core set and the rerelease of existing ships with better models but the conversion kits seems to be priced high. In term of physical material, those kits probably dont cost more than 5$ to produce. Yeah there is the design cost to take into account but its probably much lower than the one for a complete new game.

On the facebook page of my local XWing community this is the #1 complain. We see things like " i already have 4 core sets. Now they will be almost useless", "it's going to cost me 500$+just to upgade my collection", "i dont have a lot of money, i was able to build my collection by investing little by little. If you guys all go 2.0 ill need to pay at least 100$ just to be able to use the stuff i already bought", etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Thats the thing, after seeing the gameplay videos, it does not look a complete redesign at all. In a video game, this would be considered a big patch at most, not an xpac or a sequel...

You can't really compare physical games to video games.  In a video game you could change the entire game and let everyone have it at once (****, some mobile games have done that to players detriment, taknig a paid premium game and revamping it to be freemium with all the negative aspects and replacing the paid version with the worse one).  For a physical game, you have to reprint and distribute all the updated components as well as the actual development.  From what I've seen of 2.0s in other miniatures or board games, this is definitely a second edition.

Quote

I can understand the new core set and the rerelease of existing ships with better models but the conversion kits seems to be priced high. In term of physical material, those kits probably dont cost more than 5$ to produce. Yeah there is the design cost to take into account but its probably much lower than the one for a complete new game.

In addition to the design cost, there's also cuts that go to the distributors and retailers.  It's not like FFG is making $40 profit from every conversion kit.

Quote

On the facebook page of my local XWing community this is the #1 complain. We see things like " i already have 4 core sets. Now they will be almost useless", "it's going to cost me 500$+just to upgade my collection", "i dont have a lot of money, i was able to build my collection by investing little by little. If you guys all go 2.0 ill need to pay at least 100$ just to be able to use the stuff i already bought", etc.

To be fair, just like people built their collection over time, they can update over time as well.

Edited by VanderLegion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Sasajak said:

@Darth Meanie you really need to put your energies into something more positive.  May I suggest you spearhead a 1.0 continuation community dedicated to keeping 1.0 going.  That’s how you’re gonna win.  Not fighting what you hate, saving what you love.

May the Force be with you  

I registered a website www.xwingone.com

 

(HA! I just checked it out on my mobile it has the web template still on there. I have no idea who “Our Team” is. Ha. I will fix it tomorrow.)

 

I may do just that.

Edited by Jadotch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, MaxPower said:

2017: ffg screwed up a ship... losing 100$ for that sucks.

2017-2018: overcompensation screwed up the game

2018: ffg redesigns the WHOLE GAME. ~15% of my initial investment seems worth it. After all these things happened before and usually led to better balanced games (descent 1.0 -> 2.0 and also somewhat IA).

problem is the new gsme isnt the game we bought.

i bought a board game with cool miniatures to play on screen free game nights. 

a game where friends could sift through cards over a drink and make a squadron.

now im supposed to pay 350 dollars for the privilege of having to use my phone to play, and friends wont be able to pick through the cards and add up squad points anymore. not to mention the BIGGEST balance issue remains, which is the feebleness of 2 dice attacks in a world of fully modded 3+ agility ships and 4+ dice ordinance attacks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Exactly how long is FFG required to support 1.0 before people won't b!tch?  Is the answer "forever"?  Seems like it, and that's obviously unreasonable.

Exactly how cheap does FFG have to make it to re-use existing models in 2.0?  Is it less than $1 per ship?  Is it free?  Seems like it, and that's obviously unreasonable.

Look, this isn't a threat -- because, honestly, who care about me? -- but I'm giving it a couple more days, and if people are still making the same obviously unreasonable arguments, my Ignore List is going to start growing.  I mean, do you really want to be on a list that currently only Marineaver -- who has the lowest ratio of useful words to b!tching I have literally ever seen -- is on?

while I agree with most of that, some of these issues are still in flux, and the complaints that got us 2.0 in the first place might get heard and fixed. some things are obviously fixed in place with the new system, but others could really stand to be solved before 1.0s errors unfold all over again

for example, if they include 3 of every ship in the **** conversions AND enough medium bases, which they changed contents of 2 days ago so they are still being made

Edited by Vontoothskie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

problem is the new gsme isnt the game we bought.

i bought a board game with cool miniatures to play on screen free game nights. 

a game where friends could sift through cards over a drink and make a squadron.

now im supposed to pay 350 dollars for the privilege of having to use my phone to play, and friends wont be able to pick through the cards and add up squad points anymore. not to mention the BIGGEST balance issue remains, which is the feebleness of 2 dice attacks in a world of fully modded 3+ agility ships and 4+ dice ordinance attacks

How do you know?

First: the new card system actually sounds way easier for casual squad building. No phones involved.

Second: For people new to the game the buying model will be roughly the same as it was for us. For us, conversion kits sound like 15% of the initial invest for a GREAT upgrade. (Granted, may be less great then I think... it all depends on how good the 2nd edition really turns out gameplay wise)

Third: lately, the iconic OT ships werent on most tables anyway (except maybe vader and boba/kath, and some rey falcons...). Wookies, gunboats, ghosts with ducklings and the shadowcaster-enterprise ruled the sky. No humble TIE Fighter or interceptor, no x a b wing in sight.

Fourth: they are specifically adressing the swarm issues. Ties can pass damage, you cant tokenturtle as hard (evade slightly nerfed, reinforce nerfed big time), poons are gone... so mybe 2 dice have a chance?

Edited by MaxPower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MaxPower said:

Fourth: they are specifically adressing the swarm issues. Ties can pass damage, you cant tokenturtle as hard (evade slightly nerfed, reinforce nerfed big time), poons are gone... so mybe 2 dice have a chance?

Or maybe there is a squad mechanic we haven’t seen yet like many have asked for. No reason to doom and gloom the gameplay until we see more concrete news. I get the hate train, I really do, I hated a lot about v1. V2 has given me hope the game may change to something I like. After 2 years it’s nice to be optomistic about this game again. The sales will be telling, if it sells well v1 purists will have to get over it as clearly more people like the new format, if not then they can told you so to everyone and feel good I guess. However as I have seen and been told in the past, it’s happening, like it not, it’s happening. This is a done deal folks. Crying, threatening, quitting...not one of these will make a thimble full of difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a medium collection. The cost to transition to 2e comes to around $2.50/ship for my current collection if I go through miniature market, which I’ll probably place an order for. I will have a lot of extra dials and cardboard I will have to share or give to my friends or brother who may need them. Seems like a pretty cheap upgrade cost per ship to make my ships viable for both 1,0 and 2.0. Also will hopefully make some ships I like to play that haven’t as they are just not that good, which seems like an even greater value. 

I don’t like the argument that FFG are forcing people to transition cause they want to fly the next generation of ships and aren’t supporting 1.0. Including the latest two/three ship releases, 1.0 was supported for 14 waves. The developers are saying they can’t continue with another wave because the mechanics make things too broken. So either way 1.0 was dead. $2-3 ship conversion costs seems like a value deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2018 at 7:21 AM, Darth Meanie said:

 

So if I don't convert, and then buy a new Resistance A-Wing next year it will be fully compatible with my old collection?

No?

2.0 must be a new game then.

It’s absolutely not a new game, the version number in the name even indicates as much. 

To use the MMORPG analogy that someone else dropped, if playing X-Wing 2.0 is playing World of Warcraft with whatever the current expansion is, continuing to play the orginal X-Wing is the equivilent of finding a private server that is running vanilla WoW. You’ll have some people that do it, and there will probably be a community effort to comeup with stats to make new ships backwards compatible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jadotch said:

I registered a website www.xwingone.com

Jadotch, for whatever this is worth, much respect to you for lighting a candle, instead of just cursing/whining at the darkness. Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tracker7 said:

Jadotch, for whatever this is worth, much respect to you for lighting a candle, instead of just cursing/whining at the darkness. Good luck!

I still see a lot of work, and not sure what I am going to do. But I love the idea of "downgrading" ships from 2.0 to fit 1.0, at least for awhile. (If I do go forward with it I have to invest in 2.0 anyways just to see what is up ...)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

problem is the new gsme isnt the game we bought.

i bought a board game with cool miniatures to play on screen free game nights. 

a game where friends could sift through cards over a drink and make a squadron.

now im supposed to pay 350 dollars for the privilege of having to use my phone to play, and friends wont be able to pick through the cards and add up squad points anymore. not to mention the BIGGEST balance issue remains, which is the feebleness of 2 dice attacks in a world of fully modded 3+ agility ships and 4+ dice ordinance attacks

Or just continue to play the game you already bought? None of your already purchased items are being taken away from you.

You categorize it as a boardgame and won't treat it as the standalone purchase a boardgame is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I still see a lot of work, and not sure what I am going to do. But I love the idea of "downgrading" ships from 2.0 to fit 1.0, at least for awhile. (If I do go forward with it I have to invest in 2.0 anyways just to see what is up ...)

 

I'm going to be playing both editions for a while - I organize monthly Epic nights for our local group and I don't expect to see much in the way of Epic material for Second Edition for a year. I'll work with you on this, if you want a mostly-reliable partner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Or just continue to play the game you already bought? None of your already purchased items are being taken away from you.

You categorize it as a boardgame and won't treat it as the standalone purchase a boardgame is.

bet you feel clever about that, lol. people play it in stores with other people, so if you play with different rules and components, you cannot play. obviously I can still use what I have at home, but that again was not the game we all understood we were buying. most of us started playing because an FLGS store had x-wing or a friend did. if you dont update, the people who did wont be able to play with you

you seem comfortable telling me what to do and how to feel about it with zero context, which isnt very great.  we are all customers here, addressing concerns and voicing enthusiasm for a product. if you like the direction the product is heading im happy for you... but i do not. Im not going to refrain from giving feedback because you dont agree with me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×