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Tie Fighter Pilot

The new barrel roll and 1 template

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1 hour ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Weeelllll...

 

You can just go front to front, or back to back, which would do the same job. 

Yes true. But then you can only do 1 of the 3 possible positions. You can move 1/4 base forward or backward; thats 1/2 template and for that you need the line. And while you may want to limt you to that, I certainly don't.

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37 minutes ago, cybu said:

Yes true. But then you can only do 1 of the 3 possible positions. You can move 1/4 base forward or backward; thats 1/2 template and for that you need the line. And while you may want to limt you to that, I certainly don't.

If only there was a way to use the edge of the 1 template as an ersatz centre line..

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12 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

If only there was a way to use the edge of the 1 template as an ersatz centre line..

I don't think you understand how the new BR works. You can move your ship
1. exact sideways
2. 1/4 base forward
3. 1/4 base backwards

and for the 1/4 base movement you need the centre line on the template. 

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2 hours ago, impspy said:

Have they revealed whether or not large/medium based ships can barrel roll?

Some can, and when they can, they use the 1e large base BR rules (i.e. template long side adjacent to base) but the rest fo the 2e rules regarding the midline of the ship etc.

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1 hour ago, cybu said:

I don't think you understand how the new BR works. You can move your ship
1. exact sideways
2. 1/4 base forward
3. 1/4 base backwards

and for the 1/4 base movement you need the centre line on the template. 

You really don’t.  If you drop the “unmarked” range one template against the side of the ship base and estimate the center of it you can easily get your 1/4 base movement by lining up the edge of the base with the edge of the template upon landing.  And for that matter considering the huge discrepancies you can see if you compare the cardboard coming out of different core sets if you are really wedded to this new center line you will be just as accurate drawing it in yourself on any existing template.

My opinion of the new Barrel roll is that it’s a completely unnecessary and overcomplicated change designed to make people somehow think they are getting something of value with the “new” maneuver templates.  The amount of nudging, fudging and general f***ery that is going to occur with this new supposedly more precise and less OP barrel roll is going to slow down the game and lead to as much or more fussing around than the current rule.

When I look at “what’s wrong with X-Wing 1.0” I don’t immediately think “the ability to barrel roll too far forward and backward!”  This is just change for the sake of change.  “We have left all the movement templates unaltered except for this one weird unnecessary thing with the range 1. This means all your awesome acrylic maneuver templates are fine but you will have to carry a dog eared cardboard one because of this nonsense.”  

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14 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

My opinion of the new Barrel roll is that it’s a completely unnecessary and overcomplicated change designed to make people somehow think they are getting something of value with the “new” maneuver templates.  The amount of nudging, fudging and general f***ery that is going to occur with this new supposedly more precise and less OP barrel roll is going to slow down the game and lead to as much or more fussing around than the current rule.

I don't know where you get the complicated part.   Under new rules you have exactly three spots on the side of a base you can BR from.  Big or small, it's three places you can place the template.  Choose one.  I don't know why that is hard.  There's no "fiddling".  You either go directly horizontal left or right, half a ship forward, or half a ship backward.  The end.

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3 minutes ago, viedit said:

I don't know where you get the complicated part.   Under new rules you have exactly three spots on the side of a base you can BR from.  Big or small, it's three places you can place the template.  Choose one.  I don't know why that is hard.  There's no "fiddling".  You either go directly horizontal left or right, half a ship forward, or half a ship backward.  The end.

I guess you’ve never experienced play with actual humans.  “I’m lining up the template - oops I bumped it.  Now I’m lining up the quarter ship forward - oops I bumped it again.”  I’m sure the robots you play with will lock it right into those three positions and your games will be WAAAAY smoother than the endless shenanigans from before. Smh

In my opinion if you think this is going to make barrel rolls simpler and quicker you are deluded.

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Another reason why this change is interesting.  Tell me if anyone ever had that scenario:

Current version:

You declare a barrel roll, set the template down in the middle, try it and fail.  You try to bring back your ship to where it was (but its not the exact same spot) and then since the rules force you to try a barrel roll in that direction, you try to most forward or most back which may or may not have worked had initially because of the imprecision that just happened.  It can be an honest mistake or a way to abuse the game rules (if not downright cheating because its impossible to prove short of filming the game).

New version:

There is only one place that you can put your template (but up to 3 spots where you can end up), so if the action fails, your initial position is never lost because of sloppy play (or nefarious move).  It is therefore easier to do the move correctly and for the opponent to predict where you can end up.

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6 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

There is only one place that you can put your template (but up to 3 spots where you can end up), so if the action fails, your initial position is never lost because of sloppy play (or nefarious move).  It is therefore easier to do the move correctly and for the opponent to predict where you can end up.

In theory, you could botch the initial position if your opponent isn't paying attention and you are either nefarious or oblivious.  You are either barrel rolling left/right, forward or backward.  And should declare which speed you are doing at the start of the action.  So if you say I'm going to barrel roll forward and to the left, there is only one place that template should go.  And should be very easy to roll back.

Now there are times when both players are just oblivious(or lets face it, tired after 6 rounds) and you forget where you started from and roll back to the wrong spot.  So it can happen but shouldn't be as common or easy to do.

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5 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Sure, there is a line in the centre of the speed 1 template.   This matches up to a line on the centre side of the ship base.  When you barrel roll, you put either match the line on the template to line on the ship base, or line up the long edge of the template with the front or back edge of the base.

in essence, you get 6 possible posistions, as opposed to the near infinite fudging of the past.

I’m not sure that is entirely correct. After watching the game with Alex and thinking about it some, I am starting to think that, when moving fore/aft, you are lining up the center mark of the base plate with the forward or aft edge of the TEMPLATE. On small bases this is functionally identical to what your saying, but on the bigger bases it is a massive difference. In effect, any size ship can only move forward/aft a distance of half the width of the TEMPLATEs, not the bases. 

I am not certain I’m am correct in this interpretation, but in the video Alex was always mentioning lining up the base center line with an edge of the template, even though the result was the same as v1. 

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30 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

I’m not sure that is entirely correct. After watching the game with Alex and thinking about it some, I am starting to think that, when moving fore/aft, you are lining up the center mark of the base plate with the forward or aft edge of the TEMPLATE. On small bases this is functionally identical to what your saying, but on the bigger bases it is a massive difference. In effect, any size ship can only move forward/aft a distance of half the width of the TEMPLATEs, not the bases. 

I am not certain I’m am correct in this interpretation, but in the video Alex was always mentioning lining up the base center line with an edge of the template, even though the result was the same as v1. 

I just rewatched the Bell of Lost Souls play through with Frank.  On small bases the 1 forward is *always* turned sideways, center line matched up with center mark of edge of ship base and then moved either directly left or right, or forward L/R or backward L/R.  The end.  The template never moves.  Only the ship base does.  Keep one finger on the template and just move the ship back so that the edge of lines up with the center of the template.

I don't know if we've got ruling on how medium bases work yet.  Large base should be the same way. Template remains static with it turned parallel to ship base with mid point mark lined up with mid point of ship base.  Either go directly left or right, or forward L/R or backward L/R.  The template never moves.  

Basically - put the template down, stick a finger on it, and don't move it until you are done.

Edited by viedit

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Either I am not explaining it well or you didn’t read what I wrote. 

Of course the template doesn’t move!!!!

I’m saying that it looks like the final position of the ship is only moved fwd/back by by half the templates size. 

I also said that on small ships this is an identical move to how everyone thinks it works, it’s only different for bigger ships. 

You have to listen to what Alex is saying, not just look. 

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I think we're saying the same thing.  The difference between v1 and v2 is that in v2 the template always starts in the same position.  The player does not get the freedom to slide it up and down the edge of the ship to start the BR any more.  This makes it easier to return to original board state in v2 since the template is in a consistent starting spot every time.  

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