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Tie Fighter Pilot

The new barrel roll and 1 template

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6 minutes ago, Tie Fighter Pilot said:

Can someone explain the change to barrel rolls and the 1 template? I can't find any info on it besides that it is changing.

Sure, there is a line in the centre of the speed 1 template.   This matches up to a line on the centre side of the ship base.  When you barrel roll, you put either match the line on the template to line on the ship base, or line up the long edge of the template with the front or back edge of the base.

in essence, you get 6 possible posistions, as opposed to the near infinite fudging of the past.

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1 minute ago, drail14me said:

My question is WHY change it? What was wrong with how it was?

It now becomes a snap decision. You choose to barrel roll, choose where to attempt the barrel roll. If you can't do it, no nudging till you just make it.  Instead, you lose your action.   

 

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2 minutes ago, drail14me said:

My question is WHY change it? What was wrong with how it was?

In the video it was said that "it  was so overpowered for high skill aces". Now it is more predictable. For large base ships it was also "overpowered, because the distance you cover is huge". 

Don't know how large and medium ships barrel roll now.

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1 minute ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Sure, there is a line in the centre of the speed 1 template.   This matches up to a line on the centre side of the ship base.  When you barrel roll, you put either match the line on the template to line on the ship base, or line up the long edge of the template with the front or back edge of the base.

in essence, you get 6 possible posistions, as opposed to the near infinite fudging of the past.

In v1, you can you 1/2" to front or rear after the side movement. In v2 it's only 1/4".  Always 

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Essentiallly, you used to be able to barrel roll anywhere from all the way forwards (ending up one half base length ahead of your original position), all the way back (ending up one half base length backward from your position), and anywhere in between. Now your only options are all the way forward, all the way back and directly across.

It makes the action much harder to utilise in tight spaces, where it used to be very, very strong.

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53 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

This concept does not translate well into text. I have no idea how this new barrel roll works.

Imagine a line seperating the base of a miniature half way through the base, parallel to the edge with the nubs.  Above this line we call fore, behind Aft.   The speed template has a line straight through the centre.   You either line up this line to the centre line on the base, or put it so one long edge runs parallel to the fore edge, with the opposite edge touching the middle line.

in essence 6 positions for barrel rolls. Fore Starboard, Aft Starboard, centre starboard, fore port, aft port, centre port.

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange
Too many Fore’s not enough aft

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I think it strikes a nice balance to address couple problems.  

1) You can't infinitely adjust where your ship is.  This makes it slightly harder for expert player to squeeze in micro adjustments to fit you into arc.  

2) This also puts more thought into the BR action since you can't slide it up and down the template to fit the corner of the ship base into a nook on an obstacle.  This is even more important on large bases where it's harder to judge distance.

3) It should speed up game play a bit since you have 3 positions to place it(per side).  You aren't spending time trying to get the "exact" spot.

4) Should be easier to roll back game state.  It's much easier now to move the ship back to where it originally was since you have 3 distinct places the template could have been.

Edited by viedit

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3 minutes ago, viedit said:

4) Should be easier to roll back game state.  It's much easier now to move the ship back to where it originally was since you have 3 distinct places the template could have been.

And you loose you action after that if you do not fit.

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I can see the reasoning but I'd have preferred the current 'free' method to remain. Things can sometimes be too structured.

Being overpowered in certain circumstances is fair but, not thinking too deeply, would that have been only alongside the overly prevalent passive mods, which are now being reigned in?

Infinite nudging to fit it in is better left behind, so that alone is perhaps enough....

Either way, I will miss that freedom.

Large ships rolling is obviously very powerful, (it's all Dash's fault!), but I don't yet know how that will work in future.

 

Edit. Very good points from @viedit

Edited by Cuz05

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8 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Large ships rolling is obviously very powerful, (it's all Dash's fault!), but I don't yet know how that will work in future.

Same concept.  Line up the little tick mark on the middle of the long side (1 template runs parallel to big base) and BR straight across template.  Or move the one template "above" the mid line or below the mid line on ship base to BR fast or slow.

CzmWa4i.png

 

 

Edited by viedit

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25 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Imagine a line seperating the base of a miniature half way through the base, parallel to the edge with the nubs.  Above this line we call fore, behind Aft.   The speed template has a line straight through the centre.   You either line up this line to the centre line on the base, or put it so one long edge runs parallel to the fore edge, with the opposite edge touching the middle line.

in essence 6 positions for barrel rolls. Fore Starboard, Fore Starboard, centre starboard, fore port, aft port, centre port.

Ok, got it now, thanks :)

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32 minutes ago, viedit said:

3) It should speed up game play a bit since you have 3 positions to place it(per side).  You aren't spending time trying to get the "exact" spot.

Not sure about that. If theres another ship or an asteroid in the way, I will defintely take my time to figure out if the BR will fit or not before actually trying it. I don't want to lose my action over 1mm of rock. The same will be true for Target Locks if I'm not sure if the enemy is in range 3 or out of range. That will definitely make gameplay slower in those instances.

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Just now, cybu said:

Not sure about that. If theres another ship or an asteroid in the way, I will defintely take my time to figure out if the BR will fit or not before actually trying it. I don't want to lose my action over 1mm of rock. The same will be true for Target Locks if I'm not sure if the enemy is in range 3 or out of range. That will definitely make gameplay slower in those instances.

It's a forced way to "git gud".  And it affects "pro" players just as much as new players.  Pro's would intentionally call a range check for target lock *knowing* it was out of range, but not by how much to see if a boost would get them in range.  Or call it on a ship they new was out of range to see if their opponents movement would put them in range after they moved.  Can't abuse that any more.  

Eventually you'll be able to eye things good enough and just declare a focus action and move on.

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My guess for large ship barrel rolling is you can't move the barrel roll forward or backward at all. You just take the 2 straight template line it up with the side of the base and then move the ship to the other side. Not sure about medium bases, but maybe similar to how large base ships barrel roll now.

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55 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

It now becomes a snap decision. You choose to barrel roll, choose where to attempt the barrel roll. If you can't do it, no nudging till you just make it.  Instead, you lose your action.   

 

So there is a 2nd change where you lose your action if you can BR or boost when trying? You cant just select another action like it works currently?

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2 minutes ago, Thormind said:

So there is a 2nd change where you lose your action if you can BR or boost when trying? You cant just select another action like it works currently?

Yup.  There are now consequences to action decisions.  I think it will eventually make for faster, and better play.  Also stops some of the information abuse that is used by more veteran players.  

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10 minutes ago, viedit said:

It's a forced way to "git gud".  And it affects "pro" players just as much as new players.  Pro's would intentionally call a range check for target lock *knowing* it was out of range, but not by how much to see if a boost would get them in range.  Or call it on a ship they new was out of range to see if their opponents movement would put them in range after they moved.  Can't abuse that any more. 

I'm totally with you on this one. I like the change. But I'm pretty sure that in some instances it will slow down the game instead of speeding it up.

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