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Why do people quit because of the conversion set cost?

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2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Your observation skills are my only hope, lol.

other FFG choice moves:

selling out of jumpasters before nerfing them

They nerfed jumpmsters multiple times.

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

selling 3 fix packs while developing 2.0, KNOWING that the last of those fixes, the saw pack, was coming out a month before 2.0. straight greed. pre-order the thing you no longer need! lol

Boy, I wonder if that's why Saw's Renegades comes with 2.0 stuff too...

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

releasing powercreeped hotness in a planned rotation

Okay

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5 minutes ago, freakyg3 said:

I will have an extra k fighter I am willing to trade for a kimogila - I will also have an extra syke interceptor and z 95

 

and this might be the only plausible solution, straight trading. on ebay people charge way too much. still a lot of time and hassle plus the few dollars for shiping

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30 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Lol.

 

Nobody is quitting. Be serious. 

It's all talk.

you know the original corw userbase of this game quit warhammer under similar conditions?

If I cant play without my phone, im out. and if I need to spend more than 50 per a faction to update, im out. my brother sold his collection yesterday. we'll see, but unless i hear "thank you players for investing time and money in our game, heres a way to update that costs less than a game console", its over for me

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25 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Your observation skills are my only hope, lol.

other FFG choice moves:

selling out of jumpasters before nerfing them

selling 3 fix packs while developing 2.0, KNOWING that the last of those fixes, the saw pack, was coming out a month before 2.0. straight greed. pre-order the thing you no longer need! lol

releasing powercreeped hotness in a planned rotation

selling with cards that do not benefit that ship or benefit another ship more, so that people buy the expansion they dont need(ahem, RAIDER)

FFG has a long and storied history of making money off balance corrections, they wont stop.   in a year when BossWrek-Herow or whatever OP on release pilot is running the show,  i will be shocked if the solution isnt for sale

 

As was mentioned, the Jumpmaster got nerfed several times before they finally got aggressive and smacked it hard enough.

The latest wave includes 2.0 content in addition to the 1.0 content, so its actually a pretty good deal.

Power-creep is an issue. With the adjustable points/slots/tournament ban-lists, they can now quickly adjust for development goofs.

Upgrade cards will now be available in a release for each faction, like they are doing with Runewars and Legion. In other words, if you are a Galactic Empire only player, you no longer have to buy a S&V Starviper to get a card. Upgrade cards will be available in a release for each faction when they come out.

I've never liked that FFG sells "fixes" for ships, so I can agree with your last point, but the changes to the app-based squad maker and the wider availability of upgrade cards is a step in the right direction to be able to balance with less cost to consumers.

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you know you don't need to spend more than $50 per faction to update (cost of core excepted, a gripe I also share but can live with)

you can always downsize, especially now that 2.0 gives people actual reasons to buy all the models that were rendered laughably weak by power creep and rules bloat

 

considering it's been a scant few days since the announcement, as well as the typical panic mentality of the internet, it really just reeks of typical overreacting and inflated hyperbole

given time, I'm sure people will become more reasonable. If not, eh their decision and we'll get new faces to fill their place.

 

though if all the griping manages to knock a couple of $ off the conversion price, hey I'm all for it ;).

Edited by ficklegreendice

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On 5/3/2018 at 12:26 PM, 235711 said:

Please help me understand. With X-Wing 2.0 FFG will give us a lot of the changes the community was asking for. Balance and longevity seem to be the main two goals. But instead of enthusiastic discussions of the already revealed rules and cards this forum is dominated by rage quit posts. But why?

 

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

Buying ONE would give me access only to about 12% of my collection  In order to play with most my ships, I would need SIX conversion kits PLUS probably FOUR MORE when Resistance and FO are released  That is over 500 EUR to use the stuff I already paid for. 

 

On 5/3/2018 at 12:26 PM, 235711 said:

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? (regarding the future of X-Wing and the price tag of conversions)

That a conversion kit would have enough components to fly ANY 200pts (old 100pts) combination of factions ships. No need to buy more than one  

 

On 5/3/2018 at 12:26 PM, 235711 said:

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

D.I.Y. is ok for home games  I can still play V.1. at home. The reason to upgrade is to play out of home. D.I.Y. wont do if you want to be part of the community.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 12:26 PM, 235711 said:

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

Continue playing v.1. with my friends who are equally offended by this ”You need to buy half a dozen kits to play” -policy.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 12:26 PM, 235711 said:

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

Answers from this thread (unsorted and without check of feasibility):

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

 

Edit: Judgement does nothing for understanding, so I removed some parts of my post and added another question, which I will update with answers.

Put enough components in a single 50 USD/EUR kit, that I could wield ANY 200 pts. squadron of the given faction. 

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14 minutes ago, LeiserLers said:

Buying ONE would give me access only to about 12% of my collection  In order to play with most my ships, I would need SIX conversion kits PLUS probably FOUR MORE when Resistance and FO are released  That is over 500 EUR to use the stuff I already paid for. 

You might not need 2 of each sequal era pack. They said those will be cheaper and have more copies of each ships since they have so many less to start. 

14 minutes ago, LeiserLers said:

That a conversion kit would have enough components to fly ANY 200pts (old 100pts) combination of factions ships. No need to buy more than one  

And if they’d done so, the kits would have been a lot more expensive (possibly approaching double the cost), this angering other people who only have 1-2 of each ship with no recourse for a cheaper option. This way people don’t need to convert a full list of every ship if they don’t own them, and those that do have the option to get multiple kits. 

 

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19 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Indeed. If you wanted you could totally pull out your old Squat army and play them right now :)  Oh wait... 

 

On a more serious note, while GW doesn't 'hard' push you to convert each model, they do 'hard' push you to pay for the new rules (rule book+army book is about 80$ IIRC) and they also 'soft' push you toward new releases by power creep/new rules options. 

 

 

Core rule book and one army book for 40k costs you maybe 80 bucks. To convert my collection in X-wing 2.0 it will cost over $400.00 USD. That's a significant difference in cost. The only hard push you ever have from Games Workship in 40k is to buy the new editions rulebook and your particular army rulebook. Both FFG and GW are going to push new models, no one is faulting them for that.

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1 hour ago, Bulwyf said:

Core rule book and one army book for 40k costs you maybe 80 bucks. To convert my collection in X-wing 2.0 it will cost over $400.00 USD. That's a significant difference in cost. The only hard push you ever have from Games Workship in 40k is to buy the new editions rulebook and your particular army rulebook. Both FFG and GW are going to push new models, no one is faulting them for that.

So you are comparing converting ONE army to converting your ENTIRE collection? How does that make sense?

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29 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

So you are comparing converting ONE army to converting your ENTIRE collection? How does that make sense?

Even if it was just one faction in 2.0 it is still two to three times more expensive than 40k for the same thing.

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11 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

Even if it was just one faction in 2.0 it is still two to three times more expensive than 40k for the same thing.

Getting started with 40k:  Either a Starter for $80 or a Rulebook for $60.  New Codex: $40.   It's very comparable to upgrading a single faction and getting the new Core.

 

 

 

Edited by AlexW

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18 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

Even if it was just one faction in 2.0 it is still two to three times more expensive than 40k for the same thing.

Check again. Converting one faction (with core set) is about $90, just $10 more than your 40K example.  And from that $90, you can make quite a few different lists with different flavors and strengths, where as with the 40K army you have one army. Even if you have a bigger collection that could use another conversion kit, you are making the number of lists possible skyrocket. More value for more money.

Again, your example doesn't actually make sense. You are comparing a collection with one army from one faction. 

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21 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Check again. Converting one faction (with core set) is about $90, just $10 more than your 40K example.  And from that $90, you can make quite a few different lists with different flavors and strengths, where as with the 40K army you have one army. Even if you have a bigger collection that could use another conversion kit, you are making the number of lists possible skyrocket. More value for more money.

Again, your example doesn't actually make sense. You are comparing a collection with one army from one faction. 

In my experience, you're fronting FAR more than just costs of books in 40k

Both times I was around, new editions jacked up the point limit for standard games and reduced costs of units across the board

Obviously, this was so you had to buy more **** stuff

This is before changes in allowed army composition screwed you out of configurations you had bought, such as high elf silver helm spam in fantasy  being disallowed as their principle Calvary became special units which have a HARD limit (though they remained inferior to the ACTUAL special Calvary)) or double special weapon spess mehrines in 40k, which were just outright disallowed 

I'm xwing 2.0...conversion kits are a bit pricey and you have to buy the core?

Idk, but apart from the kits being sorta pricey, I can't really see this as a cash grab which is more insidious than just turning a profit. It's not as generous as warmachine only requiring new cards, but warmachine revamp to version 3 didn't change central mechanics of the game to even close of the extent as Xwing 2.0 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In my experience, you're fronting FAR more than just costs of books in 40k

Both times I was around, new editions jacked up the point limit for standard games and reduced costs of units across the board

Obviously, this was so you had to buy more **** stuff

This is before changes in allowed army composition screwed you out of configurations you had bought, such as high elf silver helm spam in fantasy  being disallowed as their principle Calvary became special units which have a HARD limit (though they remained inferior to the ACTUAL special Calvary)) or double special weapon spess mehrines in 40k, which were just outright disallowed 

 

 

From stories I have heard of 40k, I was pretty sure this was the case. But I decided to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt that he was fortunate in his army choice. 

My thanks for the confirmation. I’m out of reacts, but i’ll send one your way when they have regenerated. 

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In my experience, you're fronting FAR more than just costs of books in 40k

Both times I was around, new editions jacked up the point limit for standard games and reduced costs of units across the board

Obviously, this was so you had to buy more **** stuff

This is before changes in allowed army composition screwed you out of configurations you had bought, such as high elf silver helm spam in fantasy  being disallowed as their principle Calvary became special units which have a HARD limit (though they remained inferior to the ACTUAL special Calvary)) or double special weapon spess mehrines in 40k, which were just outright disallowed 

Or buying a few Forgeworld Medusa Siege Tanks for your IG army just before the new codex came out and the units were completely removed?

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2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

From stories I have heard of 40k, I was pretty sure this was the case. But I decided to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt that he was fortunate in his army choice. 

My thanks for the confirmation. I’m out of reacts, but i’ll send one your way when they have regenerated. 

No need to worry 

No amount of reacts can match the fact that I had to dredge up these memories in response to some rather egregious comparsions to the most notorious miniatures game company ever 

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Just an FYI, but there is no standard game size in 40K. Tournaments come in all shapes and sizes and games at the FLGS are just as varied.

Its funny, when I started playing X Wing the prevailing attitude was “this is so much cheaper than 40K, GW is so expensive!” and now it’s more like “well, yes it’s cheaper in 40k, but in the best case scenario for X Wing, it works out ten dollars more expensive”

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2 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Just an FYI, but there is no standard game size in 40K. Tournaments come in all shapes and sizes and games at the FLGS are just as varied.

Its funny, when I started playing X Wing the prevailing attitude was “this is so much cheaper than 40K, GW is so expensive!” and now it’s more like “well, yes it’s cheaper in 40k, but in the best case scenario for X Wing, it works out ten dollars more expensive”

Fair. But with the term "army" used, a certain amount of miniatures is to be expected. From what I've seen, it is more comparable with playing Epic in X-Wing than standard 100/6. But even then, the conversion kit allows for multiple configurations for a Epic point level game (minus Epic ships at the moment).

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20 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In my experience, you're fronting FAR more than just costs of books in 40k

Both times I was around, new editions jacked up the point limit for standard games and reduced costs of units across the board

Obviously, this was so you had to buy more **** stuff

This is before changes in allowed army composition screwed you out of configurations you had bought, such as high elf silver helm spam in fantasy  being disallowed as their principle Calvary became special units which have a HARD limit (though they remained inferior to the ACTUAL special Calvary)) or double special weapon spess mehrines in 40k, which were just outright disallowed 

I'm xwing 2.0...conversion kits are a bit pricey and you have to buy the core?

Idk, but apart from the kits being sorta pricey, I can't really see this as a cash grab which is more insidious than just turning a profit. It's not as generous as warmachine only requiring new cards, but warmachine revamp to version 3 didn't change central mechanics of the game to even close of the extent as Xwing 2.0 

 

Right, that’s typical unless you want a less than ideal comp or get lucky.  Also this edition printed a set of compiled codexes so I spent something around 150 to upgrade one army’s rules this edition.  They’ve also added a couple of big new units.

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10 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Just an FYI, but there is no standard game size in 40K. Tournaments come in all shapes and sizes and games at the FLGS are just as varied.

Its funny, when I started playing X Wing the prevailing attitude was “this is so much cheaper than 40K, GW is so expensive!” and now it’s more like “well, yes it’s cheaper in 40k, but in the best case scenario for X Wing, it works out ten dollars more expensive”

That’s not a good comp either.  In Xwing those upgrade kits cover you for dozens more configurations.  It’s still by far the cheaper game to get into and easier to convert to new rules.

Edited by AlexW

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Ok here’s my view

yes I like the idea and possibly some of the changes 

but being in Australia this is going to seriously cost me

(just check the prices of what ships already cost us)

I have all factions with a crazy number of each ship 

I also have 2 of each epic ship but only one Tantive IV

in my case it’s going to cost me 2 con packs (good name)for each and 1 box set

(I already bought 3 original and 3 updated)

But I don’t know if this will be enough to field my ships I own so 

So.. I’ll wait for the app  

Work out how much I’m going to have to spend then fork out a F##king load of cash to just play again 

I knew some senior people at games workshop in the uk and this would be a bad idea even for them 

and they are monsters when it comes to cash grabs 

FFG need to release the app ASAP and then state exactly what will be in each box

im not going to be happy to buy multiple con kits only to find I need to rebuy one of each ship to get the other pilots etc 

in summary a great idea but very badly managed

FFG please get on the front foot and fix this 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Huh? Yeah you get a bunch of options, but you do in a 40K codex too. And you only ever need a single codex, no matter HOW big your collection is.

Fair. I'll retire the variety part of my argument. 

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