Why do people quit because of the conversion set cost?

[235711 15]

Please help me understand. With X-Wing 2.0 FFG will give us a lot of the changes the community was asking for. Balance and longevity seem to be the main two goals. But instead of enthusiastic discussions of the already revealed rules and cards this forum is dominated by rage quit posts. But why?

 

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

 

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? (regarding the future of X-Wing and the price tag of conversions)

 

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

 

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

 

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

Answers from this thread (unsorted and without check of feasibility):

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

 

Edit: Judgement does nothing for understanding, so I removed some parts of my post and added another question, which I will update with answers.

Edited May 3, 2018 by 235711

[Jiron 423]

50 minutes ago, 235711 said:

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

 

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? That X-Wing 1.0 would stick around forever with an ever increasing Errata and balancing problems? Or that a conversion set with a lot of cardboard and maybe far over 100 cards costs like 10 $?

 

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration? I mean cardboard is no magic. If I would own two dozen X-Wings, I would think about cheap solutions to field them in 2.0 rather then just quitting.

 

What do the people do with their ships when they quit? Sell it on ebay for maybe half the worth? Burn it and post a video on youtube? Why is that better instead of buying just one conversion set in the beginning and play with what you have?

I don't quit, I'll just try to explain other points of view.

1) Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)?  My wife plays X-Wing too. We both play on tournaments and so. That makes it 200USD as an innitial buy. In Central/Eastern Europe, this is quite major strike to the family budget.

2) What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? I would rather see individual ship conversion kit at about 5USD per piece. Therefore, I wouldn't have to buy whole box of pilot cards for ships I don't have and don't want to buy. In my Scum collection there is 4 Fang Fighters, Slave I, HWK and 2 Headhunters. In my format mentioned I would pay about 40USD and only have conversion for ships I want. Also, it would be nice to have Damage Deck and Templates in the Conversion Kit so Scum Players don't have to buy more X-Wings and TIE Fighters.

3) Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration? Not viable for tournament play. But I agree the best solution would be community trading but that is not entirely "user-friendly" or "reliable" source of conversion material.

4) What do the people do with their ships when they quit? I like watching such videos but I can immagine people will try to play first edition. Possibly with community driven updates. Some will use the models for other wargames (such as Horizon Wars as aircraft). I am going to buy Star Eagles, a miniature starfighter dogfighting wargame by Ganesha Games for 8.00USD (or so) and use my old models in it.

[SOTL 3,229]

It's a personal decision that we'll approach from our own perspectives.

Some people have more money than others.  Some people have bigger X-Wing collections than others.  Some people play more X-Wing than others.  Some people have other hobbies they could do instead.

We'll all make the decision that we think is right for us, for our situation.  Lecturing people that they're being stupid about it is almost certainly not helpful.

[Ram 228]

1 hour ago, 235711 said:

Please help me understand. With X-Wing 2.0 FFG will give us a lot of the changes the community was asking for. Balance and longevity seem to be the main two goals. But instead of enthusiastic discussions of the already revealed rules and cards this forum is dominated by rage quit posts. But why?

 

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

 

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? That X-Wing 1.0 would stick around forever with an ever increasing Errata and balancing problems? Or that a conversion set with a lot of cardboard and maybe far over 100 cards costs like 10 $?

 

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration? I mean cardboard is no magic. If I would own two dozen X-Wings, I would think about cheap solutions to field them in 2.0 rather then just quitting.

 

What do the people do with their ships when they quit? Sell it on ebay for maybe half the worth? Burn it and post a video on youtube? Why is that better instead of buying just one conversion set in the beginning and play with what you have?

I am on the fence about this, but to touch a bit on #2:
I dont want to buy a new full price core set. The needed items to play 2.0 should be available in a special kit (rulers, tokens and Dice only) for a very small number of $$$. I also feel that the packaging of the conversion kits is bad. I want to buy the conversion kits for the ships that I want to fly one at a time for a few $$$. If those things were available to me I would for sure had gone 2.0.

As it looks now, I probably wont.

[LordBlades 2,403]

In my local community, the reasons to complain (possibly also quit) that people have stated have mainly been two:

 

- People don't see the need for a 2.0 so it feels like a pure cash grab. If you haven't played against the cutting edge of the meta and/or feel current X-wing is fine, that's a valid point of view IMO. 

 

-It's a financial effort. X-wing is a relatively cheap game, especially if you've been playing for long enough that you only need to 'keep up' with the new waves as they release. Now it's a 2-3 x spike in cost for the conversion to 2.0.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

25 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Lecturing people that they're being stupid about it is almost certainly not helpful.

Some are extremely irrational about it and misunderstand what is happening. And this minority is extremely vocal.

Most of my collection is currently unplayable. I can‘t use punishers or HWKs or Bwings, for example.

After buying the conversion kits I will still have some that I also can‘t play. Why is it different? Because I could in theory play the ones now? But not more than two of whatever in 2.0 is so much worse?

It‘s incredibly dishonest to complain that vehemently just because the theoretical possibility of flying the maximal number of a ship is not possible.

[Shinren 75]

I love the idea of the second edition. 

But i play rebels and empire. 2 faction will become 4 in the new edition, so minimum 4 upgrade kits and the new starter set... 

So I'll have to pay 200-240€ only to continue to play with my toys. And I've already payed for them. 

And this purchase won't let me play all the tie-fighter, x-wing or b-wing I already own, so I'm a little bit disappointed because I've to find some missing dials/parts just to be sure to be able to play all of them if I would like to... 

Obviously I'like to pay less and a company would like to earn more, but a lot of player does not have just one faction, so... 

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

4 minutes ago, Shinren said:

So I'll have to pay 200-240€ only to continue to play with my toys. And I've already payed for them

But you don‘t know how expensive the FO/Resistance will be. There are fewer ships, so why should it be the same cost?

Second, you can continue to play for what you already paid: Xwing 1.0

If you want to play a new game, Xwing 2.0, and are allowed to convert your old stuff, why would that be free?

[Shinren 75]

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But you don‘t know how expensive the FO/Resistance will be. There are fewer ships, so why should it be the same cost?

Second, you can continue to play for what you already paid: Xwing 1.0

If you want to play a new game, Xwing 2.0, and are allowed to convert your old stuff, why would that be free?

This is why I wrote a range: from 200 to 240€.

I can play x-wing 1.0 just for fun, but if I want to play competitive, I cannot. 

And won't be any support or updates for the 1.0 edition... 

So we all have to move to 2.0

Finally, I did not say that I don't want to pay to play the new edition. But it is not cheap. We all have already spent a lot... 

[JCrudge 18]

I like the idea of 2.0 but im not happy having to fork out another £200 (give or take) just to play the ships ive already purchased.

I'm going to see what the rules look like and then maybe upgrade one faction or just continue to play 1.0 - i built my collection up over several years, there's no way i can buy all the conversions in one go.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

1 minute ago, Shinren said:

This is why I wrote a range: from 200 to 240€.

I can play x-wing 1.0 just for fun, but if I want to play competitive, I cannot. 

And won't be any support or updates for the 1.0 edition... 

So we all have to move to 2.0

Finally, I did not say that I don't want to pay to play the new edition. But it is not cheap. We all have already spent a lot... 

There is no reason why you should be able to play competitive in a new game without buying the components of the new game.

[Shinren 75]

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

There is no reason why you should be able to play competitive in a new game without buying the components of the new game.

Ok please, try to read everything, not just a line... 

We all agree  to pay for the new edition, but it is not cheap if you want to update your fleet. As I said, if you play more than one faction, you have to buy a lot of kits just to be sure to use your ships...

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

1 minute ago, Shinren said:

Ok please, try to read everything, not just a line... 

We all agree  to pay for the new edition, but it is not cheap if you want to update your fleet. As I said, if you play more than one faction, you have to buy a lot of kits just to be sure to use your ships...

So what price would be acceptable to you, per dial? And why is it less than $1.35 for Rebels, or $1.47 for Imperials, or $1.28 for Scum?

4 minutes ago, Shinren said:

just to be sure to use your ships...

I want to highlight this because it's outstanding. You are almost certainly not using all your ships right now, and almost certainly not more than two of the same model per squad. Why do you think that will change?

[Gallanteer 520]

After reading a lot of the forum threads I feel a whole lot calmer. The main gripe of the conv kits is lack of dials for multiple ships. As a non-tourney player my plan is this -

1. Download new rules when available - most of the tokens etc on core set are basically unchanged. Forget about middle line down move templates, I can add them or just take best judgement anyway. Only really missing new damage deck.

2. Download new App

3. Buy 1 conversion kit and amend old style dials as appropriate. I have a couple of T70s and the new T65 dials are the same so will swap them out.

4. Enjoy

I'm enjoying Armada too much at the mo anyway but will buy in eventually.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Gallanteer

[Howlix 9]

It seems like a pure cash grab to me.  Instead of supporting the community that has already been throwing money at them FFG has instead decided to make them pay to remain competitive.  They could easily have put out print and play conversions for the already released units as errata with kits to purchase things that were absolutely necessary like the action wheels AND offered a la carte kits for each ship with the 2.0 materials that will come with repirints for those that don't want to do the print and play option.  Yes, their game will look nicer but both will function within the scope of the new rules.  This seems a better way to support a community that has supported them while also allowing them to build out the game and continue to make money on it.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

3 minutes ago, Howlix said:

FG has instead decided to make them pay to remain competitive.

As opposed to now because BBBBZ is still a competitive list?

4 minutes ago, Howlix said:

They could easily have put out print and play conversions for the already released units as errata

They do. It's called the app.

4 minutes ago, Howlix said:

with kits to purchase things that were absolutely necessary like the action wheels

They do. It's called conversion kit.

4 minutes ago, Howlix said:

AND offered a la carte kits for each ship with the 2.0 materials that will come with repirints for those that don't want to do the print and play option.

They can't possibly do that because selling a la carte kits for thousands around the globe would be a logistical nightmare.

[Shinren 75]

Again, as I wrote, a customer want to pay less, a company want to earn more, so they need to find a balance... 

Some people will quit because of the price and I can understand them. 

Actually I can play all of my ships (maybe I will not win any tournament with a for fun list but I can!) competitive and for fun. No one can stop me playing 3 b-wing. 

If we want to continue to be free, playing competitive and for fun as we actually do now, most of us must spend a lot. And we just have some updated cards (just an example, but the tie-fighter dial is the same, so we actually pay just for the pilot cards and bases). 

Probably I would like to pay 30-35€ per kit, not 50€. And obviously I do not like to buy another core set... We already have everything, they just changed a few damage cards... 

[Howlix 9]

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

As opposed to now because BBBBZ is still a competitive list?

They do. It's called the app.

They do. It's called conversion kit.

They can't possibly do that because selling a la carte kits for thousands around the globe would be a logistical nightmare.

We will agree to disagree.  None of that even remotely convinces me that 2.0 is worth it and that it isn't a complete cash grab by FFG.

[235711 15]

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

It's a personal decision that we'll approach from our own perspectives.

Some people have more money than others.  Some people have bigger X-Wing collections than others.  Some people play more X-Wing than others.  Some people have other hobbies they could do instead.

We'll all make the decision that we think is right for us, for our situation.  Lecturing people that they're being stupid about it is almost certainly not helpful.

Yes, you are right. Judgement doesn't help, so I edited my initial post and removed some of my harsh judgement.

[Sasajak 1,348]

40 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Most of my collection is currently unplayable.

Someone gets it ? 

90% if my collection is useless in 1e if I play competitively which is why I retreated to HotAC/Epic/casual scenarios.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

2 minutes ago, Shinren said:

Probably I would like to pay 30-35€ per kit, not 50€. And obviously I do not like to buy another core set... We already have everything, they just changed a few damage cards... 

If a difference of €20 is enough to push someone out of a game that is pure luxury anyway, then that person should maybe rethink their prioritios in life. Especially in the context of competitive play where the cost of travel, food and entry is definitely a lot more than 20 bucks. Every. time.

[Shinren 75]

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

If a difference of €20 is enough to push someone out of a game that is pure luxury anyway, then that person should maybe rethink their prioritios in life. Especially in the context of competitive play where the cost of travel, food and entry is definitely a lot more than 20 bucks. Every. time.

Again, you just read only part of my answer. 20€ less per kit. 4 kits. 20x4=80€ + 40€ for the new core. 

100-120€ more. Not 20.

[Ignithas 275]

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

If a difference of €20 is enough to push someone out of a game that is pure luxury anyway, then that person should maybe rethink their prioritios in life. Especially in the context of competitive play where the cost of travel, food and entry is definitely a lot more than 20 bucks. Every. time.

Maybe you should rethink your priorities. Being outraged, because people voice their concernes doesn't seem healthy to me.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

1 minute ago, Shinren said:

Again, you just read only part of my answer. 20€ less per kit. 4 kits. 20x4=80€ + 40€ for the new core. 

100-120€ more. Not 20.

Two kits. Unless you just changed that you need two of each. And adding the new core is dishonest, too, because you actually get that worth out of it with new models, new templates, new obstacles, new damage deck.

But even if it's 120€; 120€ over the course of half a year? Yeah, same argument. If that is enough to push someone out, then maybe it's better if that person rethinks their priorities.

[Shinren 75]

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Two kits. Unless you just changed that you need two of each. And adding the new core is dishonest, too, because you actually get that worth out of it with new models, new templates, new obstacles, new damage deck.

But even if it's 120€; 120€ over the course of half a year? Yeah, same argument. If that is enough to push someone out, then maybe it's better if that person rethinks their priorities.

Again. Rebels, imperials, resistance and first order. 4 kits and they do not let me play all of my stuff. And I do not play scum, so some people will have to buy 5 kits! 

Good to know that you are rich and more than 200€ are not a problem. 

But here we are trying to understand why some of us are disappointed. And you are just saying we have to spend what they ask just for playing with our toys. Some of us disagee... 

Finally, the new core set is mandatory... Just for the damage deck! If you already own the ships, templates and so on, you are paying 40€ for ghe damage deck!