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RayGuns

Regarding the Conversion Kits - - - - - FFG, please read.

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Hope FFG reads this,

After doing more research, I'm thinking 2.0 might be a good reboot for this game. However, like many other X-Wing fans I can't wait to actually read the new rules before I commit to this 2.0 reboot. They must not be finished because the PDF is not listed.

I think the main problem a lot of fans are having is with the Conversion Kits. A lot of fans are saying things like, "I cannot justify spending another $200 or more to re-buy basic components (to make it 2.0 playable) after already spending several hundreds of dollars buying all the original core sets and expansions."

The other problem is with the Conversion Kits themselves. For many fans the Conversion Kits fall short or will have a lot of stuff the average fan does not need/want. That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need, and this is bad because fans feel they are paying for things they do not want. Also, there is going to be short-comings! Let us be realistic, most fans have more then 4x TIE-Fighters and 2x X-Wings! This means fans will need to buy two or three of these Conversion Kits (FFG's plan all along I suspect) to get enough of what they need, and of course more of what they do not need (higher wastage).

Surely there must be a better way for FFG to help their fans update to 2.0! Sadly I can't think of it, but there must be a better solution. Does anybody have ideas how to make this better?

 

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Then don't buy them until you've read the rules?

No one is mugging you and forcing you to pay for them before you've read the rules.

And honestly, I'd be pretty surprised if we don't have a full leak, official or otherwise, of the rules well before release.  At the very latest they will be online after GenCon, because people will be able to buy the set there on early release.

And honestly, I think you're wrong about most fans having large numbers of ships like that.  I'm a pretty hardcore player and the largest number of any ship I own is four.

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What about all the of stuff the average fan does not need/want? That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need. Fans will feel they are paying for things they do not want.

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I would have preferred a system where players select the quantity of each ship card they need and order it as a bundle.

Surely if the new cards are being printed in bulk it is irrelevant if they are packaged as pre-defined kits or as singles, like magic cards.

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4 minutes ago, RayGuns said:

What about all the of stuff the average fan does not need/want? That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need. Fans will feel they are paying for things they do not want.

Yeah, I'm with you on this and it's my main issue. I'm fine with having a few extras, but what I'll get is 23/37 rebel sets and 22/34 imperial sets which I won't need. I don't quite understand why big ships all get the same as little ones; 1 Falcon, 1 Ghost etc. should have been the standard. If they ditched all the card for the unnecessary second sets of these large ships they could replace these with stuff that's more common.

There's going to be glut of certain ship sets on the secondary market (eg, person gets 2 rebel kits, and won't need 4 Falcon sets, so 3 of those will go on ebay, repeat for numerous other people). However, supply and demand will drive the costs of the basic ships like the Y-wing and B-wing higher, as most people will need what they have.

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I don’t mind the idea of 2.0 and am actually really looking forward to elements of it but I’m really unhappy that I’ll need to spend £200-£400 (depending on the cost of epic conversions) to be able to use ships that I’ve actually already purchased... (i'll currently need at least 2 imperial and 2 rebel conversion kits and the core set and then whatever they release to convert the 2 imp and rebel huge ships)

I mainly play epic and HotAC and the conversion sets in their current incarnation just don't cater for this. 

Some of this could be alleviated if they did mini, 1 ship, conversion kits for a couple of £ so that people could fill in the ships that the main conversion kits didn't have enough of for them without having to buy an entire second, or third full conversion kit. (i currently need to buy a second rebel conversion kit just for 1 x-wing, 1 B wing and 1 y wing and a 2nd imperial one just for 4 Tie Fighters, 1 Defender, 1 Advanced and 1 Phantom)

As it stands, and given i mainly play EPIC & HotAC I'm likely to just continue playing 1.0 for the foreseeable future.

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6 minutes ago, Alphastealer said:

I would have preferred a system where players select the quantity of each ship card they need and order it as a bundle.

Surely if the new cards are being printed in bulk it is irrelevant if they are packaged as pre-defined kits or as singles, like magic cards.

 

Fantastic idea!!!

A system where players select the quantity of each ship card and maneuver dial they need and order it as a bundle.

However, shipping for overseas fans will be costly, and FFG will never offer free shipping. Even if with a special case like this.

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16 minutes ago, RayGuns said:

What about all the of stuff the average fan does not need/want? That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need. Fans will feel they are paying for things they do not want.

Trade them with people who does want them.

And, you know, you just said the average fan has a tonne of everything, now they also don't have a tonne of everything?

For the two factions I'm keeping, there's exactly one ship NOT covered by two conversion kits, and maybe half a dozen or so in the kits for which I don't have the plastic.

The sky is not falling.

E: also since when can you buy magic cards as singles from WotC in retail packs?  You'll be able to buy singles from the conversion kits from the same places you buy singles of magic cards - independent retailers who break the kits up and sell singles from them.

 

Edited by thespaceinvader

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13 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

If a $50 conversion kit to update 40 ships seems too expensive, how do you justify paying $40 to update two ships ? (veteran packs, ace packs or Saw's renegades)

it's not though,

it's £50 to update the ships that you happen to own that are in that kit.

This is something of an extreme comparison but imagine, for the sake of argument,  someone who just liked to play huge tie swarms in epic play and had 40 tie fighters (unlikely i know)

They'd actually have to get 10 conversion kits.

I myself have maybe a 3rd of the ship types covered in the kits but several of them rather than just the 2 or 3 in the kit. I need at least 2 of each kit.

Essentially you're paying $50 to convert a load of ships you may not have in lieu of some you do have.

A pick and mix or modular conversion kit would go a long way to resolving these issues.

Edited by JCrudge

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29 minutes ago, Alphastealer said:

I would have preferred a system where players select the quantity of each ship card they need and order it as a bundle.

Surely if the new cards are being printed in bulk it is irrelevant if they are packaged as pre-defined kits or as singles, like magic cards.

This is a logistical nightmare. No chance they would or could do this.

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Firstly, I like the look and direction of what I have seen if X-Wing 2.0.

The conversion packs are a good idea.

BUT!

I really wish the expensive large ships were not present in doubles, while common small ships are only present in singles. As has been said, to update many peoples collections will result in numerous unwanted large ship stuff and a limited supply of small ships.

I really think the conversion packs should contain half a squads worth of each ship type, and cost slightly less.

I'm really hoping they release single expansion conversions soon, so most people can buy a faction kit and some specific ship kits, even if the specific ship kits are not as good value (let's be honest I think it is still good value for the first faction conversion kit) but obviously diminishing returns on second or even third one.

 

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I really don't understand the negativity about conversion kits.

There's a new game coming out in six months time.  It's a collectable game about star wars.  Just like that first collectable game about star wars it's going to be expensive to buy everything (that's what collectable games are like).

But, you don't have to buy everything in the new game.  You can get a huge bulk discount if you bought the first game.

If you don't want to take the huge bulk discount that's on offer at release you can wait to buy smaller upgrades from folk off the internet.

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I've said it elsewhere, the kits only serve a certain type of player/collection. Alternative smaller, cross faction kits would likely prove just as useful. Various triple fighter packs would be a godsend (to me).

Trading with friends only goes so far (particularly if none of your friends play X Wing). I have to think FFG figured the aftermarket would pick up the slack. There's no telling how that will go but I can see me wading through an awful lot of large ship conversions and 1.0 cast offs, whilst paying over the odds for that 1 Defender conversion.

From my point of view, it's not huge complaint, the early signs are that 2.0 will be a huge improvement and very gratefully received, but I do think it's an issue worthy of comment.

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24 minutes ago, MrParsons said:

I really don't understand the negativity about conversion kits.

There's a new game coming out in six months time.  It's a collectable game about star wars.  Just like that first collectable game about star wars it's going to be expensive to buy everything (that's what collectable games are like).

But, you don't have to buy everything in the new game.  You can get a huge bulk discount if you bought the first game.

If you don't want to take the huge bulk discount that's on offer at release you can wait to buy smaller upgrades from folk off the internet.

It's not a new game though, it's version 2.0 of an existing one for which a lot of people have spent a lot of money buying a lot of ships.

I'm Well aware that no one is making me continue to play or upgrade to 2.0 but essentially, if i want to play 2.0 with my existing ships i need to fork out another £200 to do so.

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1 minute ago, JCrudge said:

It's not a new game though, it's version 2.0 of an existing one for which a lot of people have spent a lot of money buying a lot of ships.

I'm Well aware that no one is making me continue to play or upgrade to 2.0 but essentially, if i want to play 2.0 with my existing ships i need to fork out another £200 to do so.

But you had no problem paying £80 to continue to play your triple defender list when the imperial veteran pack was released.

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2 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

But you had no problem paying £80 to continue to play your triple defender list when the imperial veteran pack was released.

That's one of the best points here. People cried to get "fixes expansions", that were sold 40$ and up (looking at you TIE adv fix pack with a Raider included for 100$), and only fixed one ship (2 for Imp Vets), and now, packs that fixes whole (or large swath) of collections costs 50$ and it's a scandal!

 

I'm more annoyed at the Core 2.0 that "forces" me to get 2 MORE TIEs and one more x-wing. I would rather get a No-ship core on top of the Conversion kits...

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5 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

But you had no problem paying £80 to continue to play your triple defender list when the imperial veteran pack was released.

i didn't, but that was my choice. I didnt have to buy that in order to continue playing the current version of the game.

Also that included 2 brand new ships.

Also £24 not £80.

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1 hour ago, RayGuns said:

What about all the of stuff the average fan does not need/want? That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need. Fans will feel they are paying for things they do not want.

Who is this average fan you speak of? Is it a Star Wars fan? An X-Wing player? Do you consider yourself an average fan? If so, then by what criteria? I’m really interested to know because I’m pretty much OK with the contents of the conversion kits, so that must make me an outlier, according to a large number of people opening threads on these forums. 

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1 hour ago, RayGuns said:

What about all the of stuff the average fan does not need/want? That means spending $50 on a single Conversion Kit with items they do not need. Fans will feel they are paying for things they do not want.

The alternative is to do conversions for each ship: I believe this is what Attack Wing did. It comes out much more expensive in the end.

By bundling everyone into a giant >30 ship conversion pack they keep the costs down. The conversion kits work out at around $1.50 cents a ship which would not be tenable as individual packs.

Consider this however: you get everything you need to run those >30 ships except the model. With a bit of headcanon (treating TIE/v1s as upgraded TIE fighters for example) you gain a lot ships.

Edited by Firespray-32

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22 minutes ago, JCrudge said:

It's not a new game though, it's version 2.0 of an existing one for which a lot of people have spent a lot of money buying a lot of ships.

I'm Well aware that no one is making me continue to play or upgrade to 2.0 but essentially, if i want to play 2.0 with my existing ships i need to fork out another £200 to do so.

No, it's a new game.

It's a new game which is based on an old game, but it's still a new game.  It has new rules, new cards, new tokens, new baseplates, etc etc etc.  The only thing which is entirely unchanged is the plastic ship models (and even some of those are getting an optional rework), and most of the plastic bases.

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