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Darth evil

Tie Advanced 2.0 seems meh

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i thought FFG had learned it's leason with the Advanced when they mad it a worst version of the T-65 but it had an Evade , well in 2.0 it's still worst than a T-65 and they went even took the evade away.    And the T-65 gets a better dial...sigh

please don't screw up the Interceptor

Edited by Darth evil

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Just now, SnooSnarry said:

You're thinking about the game with a 1.0 mind. This isn't 1.0. 

how so, in 2.0 you still roll little red and green dice and you still perform actions. The Advanced lost one of those

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huh? cost is THE metric for inferiority/superiority

the TIE fighter slapped the x-wing around for 6 long years because of its cost!

 

 

anyway, I can agree on only one point for concern and it isn't the t-65 (because, again, no points)

it's just that Advanced Targeting Computer is TL reliant in a world where action efficiency is at a premium. If any target-lock removal exists, kiss your advance goodbye (hi, reaper!)

 

but this was the same exact deal in 1.0, only worse because the competition was just dumb

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

so...

point cost?

do we know them?

no?

well, then. there goes that vital method of comparison

Without point costs it really is hard to make a comparison to the t65 but the Advanced does look to have some serious issues. 

It still needs a lock on an opponent to get a 3rd Attack die and while it can now use that lock to reroll it doesn’t get an auto crit anymore. I’m pretty sure the latter is in keeping with balancing offence or creating more dice variance. The other issue is that you can fail actions. So not only does the TIE Advanced need action economy for offensive output you can actually lose your action by failing to lock. 

I’m really not sure what they are trying to do with this ship. It’s likely the prototype still has evade and boost. It also looks like Vader won’t be able to get boost. 

We can’t be sure about anything until we get it on the table but I can definitely see issues when thinking in a 1.0 mindset. 

 

Edit: I’m pretty sure the Jam action can’t get rid of lock now. Two reasons. It only removes a token on the ship you jam and you don’t have the blue end anymore and you can only get rid of round tokens from what I heard. 

Black One and Wes could still be a problem though. 

Edited by DodgingArcs

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none of these issues matter if the Advance is priced correctly

even if it just ends up being a janky x-wing, if it's priced right it will be amazing. that's the long and short of it

 

of course, the issues are legitimate. they were issues in 1.0 as well. but with 2.0, there is a chance of it not mattering nearly as much because everyone will have issues. There are no super turrets anymore, your flying actually matters!

Remember, there being consequences for your actions is a good thing. It's part of the whole "tactical miniatures game" experience. The Advance just has to be costed appropriately with this drawback in mind

plus, there's also stuff like the ability to take fcs, and the fact that we don't know the available upgrade slots (apparently it gets two mods?). There's also the fact that it costs different ships different amounts of points to take the same upgrade.

swz07_a1_tie-advance_spread2.png

 

anyway, far as I can see there's only one thing that'll **** the Advance over, and that's target-lock removal. Needing TLs is restrictive, but if the cost is right then it's just part of the playstyle (ie you're playing very few points for a "3 die primary" but too much for a 2 -die primary, so using your advance well is all about your positioning and actions). If your TLs just get absolutely crunched, though, then there's nothing you can do

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Quote

Plus, there's also stuff like the ability to take fcs, and the fact that we don't know the available upgrade slots (apparently it gets two mods?). There's also the fact that it costs different ships different amounts of points to take the same upgrade.

It's worth pointing out that the Team Covenant Stream spoiled FCS 2.0; It now lets you reroll a single die against a ship you have target locked, butblocks you out of spending the target lock like the old Advanced Targeting Computer. On the other hand, since the Advanced needs that target lock for its third attack die, that's not nearly as much of a problem.

Edited by Squark

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So the question is... Will the advanced be cheaper than the X-Wing? 



But I am concerned about the humble TIE as well. Both it and the Advanced got weaker, while the Y-wing and X-Wing got stronger. 

Now, if we are able to field 5 X-Wings, I really hope that is answered somehow on the Empire's side. 

Luckily, they are able to change the prices, but still... This does not bode well.

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3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

So the question is... Will the advanced be cheaper than the X-Wing? 



But I am concerned about the humble TIE as well. Both it and the Advanced got weaker, while the Y-wing and X-Wing got stronger. 

Now, if we are able to field 5 X-Wings, I really hope that is answered somehow on the Empire's side. 

Luckily, they are able to change the prices, but still... This does not bode well.

Uh, where do you see a weaker Tie Fighter? It looks the same as it always did. Sure, the X-wing is getting buffed compared to its original incarnation, but Tie Fighter > X-wing was the original balance problem of the game.

The Advanced does feel like it will be in an awkward spot, though. Depends on whether or not they revise how Target locks are acquired.

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How can you judge a ship when you have no point cost for it?

Don't get me wrong, when something is over/underpowered I'm the complainer-in-chief, but I don't see how you can say the TIE/ad is 'meh' when you don't know something as critical as how many points it costs. This is the kind of pointless complaining this forum could do without.

Edited by CRCL

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3 minutes ago, Squark said:

Uh, where do you see a weaker Tie Fighter? It looks the same as it always did. Sure, the X-wing is getting buffed compared to its original incarnation, but Tie Fighter > X-wing was the original balance problem of the game.

The Advanced does feel like it will be in an awkward spot, though. Depends on whether or not they revise how Target locks are acquired.

Evade is different now. TIEs will die a lot faster. 

Crackshot is different. TIEs will have to position better to deal the same damage, so they are weaker there too. 



 

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6 minutes ago, CRCL said:

How can you judge a ship when you have no point cost for it?

Don't get me wrong, when something is over/underpowered I'm the complainer-in-chief, but I don't see how you can say the TIE/ad is 'meh' when you don't know something as critical as how many points it costs. This is the kind of pointless complaining this forum could do without.

watch the TC video, if those lists are both 200 points then the Empire got the shaft. 2 X-wing's a U-wing and a Y-Wing against a Tie Adv, 3 Tie Fighters and a Reaper

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5 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Evade is different now. TIEs will die a lot faster. 

Crackshot is different. TIEs will have to position better to deal the same damage, so they are weaker there too. 



 

evades hardly mattered without being able to stack them

focus is mathematically equivalent or superior

fact is they die because they're TIES. evade nerf does not change that

now crackshot has been nerfed. It might also cost nothing on TIE fighters

we don't know. we need to see point costs

 

that's basically going to be this entire conversation

 

 

also in the TC video, it's 3 PS 2s and a PS 4 versus 4 ps 3s and a ps 5

Edited by ficklegreendice

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52 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

so...

point cost?

do we know them?

no?

well, then. there goes that vital method of comparison

A Reaper with Krenic + 3 Black Cracks and Stele in his Advanced are 200 points. 

A U-Wing with two X-Wings and a Y is 200 points as well. The TIE-Fighters seem to be garbage because 2 dice are still bad and either the TIE-AD or Reaper was way overpriced. Well OR the X-Wings are way undercost. Either way, at least those imperial ships don't look too hot ... well outside of the Reaper, the dial seems cool ... so hopefully it's not the piece which is overpriced in that list. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

A Reaper with Krenic + 3 Black Cracks and Stele in his Advanced are 200 points. 

A U-Wing with two X-Wings and a Y is 200 points as well. The TIE-Fighters seem to be garbage because 2 dice are still bad and either the TIE-AD or Reaper was way overpriced. Well OR the X-Wings are way undercost. Either way, at least those imperial ships don't look too hot ... well outside of the Reaper, the dial seems cool ... so hopefully it's not the piece which is overpriced in that list. 

OR Alex used all the synergy and all of his upgrade cards, while Zach didn't?  For all we know, he was actually playing a 185 point list because of that.

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9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

A Reaper with Krenic + 3 Black Cracks and Stele in his Advanced are 200 points. 

A U-Wing with two X-Wings and a Y is 200 points as well. The TIE-Fighters seem to be garbage because 2 dice are still bad and either the TIE-AD or Reaper was way overpriced. Well OR the X-Wings are way undercost. Either way, at least those imperial ships don't look too hot ... well outside of the Reaper, the dial seems cool ... so hopefully it's not the piece which is overpriced in that list. 

2 dice are a lot less garbage in 2.0

we seem to be forgetting all the changes the game is going through specifically so that stuff like 2-dice primaries aren't garbage

like the evade change, or the action independent defense stacking change, or the reinforce change etc. etc. etc

 

now, for my money, I'm still not touching a TIE fighter's 3 hull/3 agi *** with even the longest of poles. but they're definitely not the same in this game as in 1.0

what's far more likely than empire being overpriced is us reaching for conclusions from an incredibly limited sample size

 

edit: though if i have to pick at the empire list, krennic looks absolutely atrocious and tact off inefficient. I'm flying a reaper to JAM not to coordinate!

also a green die re-roll on a 1 agi ship that can already modify its green dice

goddamn the poor reaper is just poorly built :(

 

anyway, there you go. It's entirely possible any perceived list mismatch is due to a horrible reaper build

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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