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One weird side-effect of all this 2e nonsense

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For the record, I'm actually pretty okay with both 2e itself and the way it's being handled. I don't like having chunks of my collection stuck behind the need for upgrade packs, but I get why it was done this way and for the most part I'm okay with it.

The real downside that I'm feeling now is that this totally kills my inclination to buy more ships in the remaining 1e era. Like I'd recently contemplated buying another Harpoon Expansion Pack to open up some specific build options, but now there's only marginal value in flying those couple of builds for the next few months versus just saving the money for later update packs and flying something else. Similarly, I was super stoked for the X-Wing and U-Wing fix pack, and the Reaper preview looked awesome too... but now suddenly the X and U fixes are going to come to me in the Rebel update whether I buy the standalone pack or not, and now I'd honestly rather put the $30 for the Reaper toward the $50 I need to get all the rest of my Imps legal in 2e.

Y'know what I mean? None of this is bad per se, but boy does it disincline me to spend more on X-Wing until 2e drops.

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Yeah, I am planning on getting the Galactic Empire kit first. I own 0 gunboats. I could use the cards/dials in trade to get other ship components, or I could grab 1-3 1st ed. gunboats that go on clearance.

I haven't decided yet.

Edited by kris40k

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As long as every X-Wing player in existence (including all new players until 2.0 packs catches up to 1.0) buys at least any 2 conversion kits, FFG is going to make a **** ton of money off of us and probably couldn't care less that sales are going to drop between now and September. Those kits probably cost less than $7 each to manufacture and ship. 2e is going to be a masterfully crafted and calculated windfall for FFG. 

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2 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

As long as every X-Wing player in existence (including all new players until 2.0 packs catches up to 1.0) buys at least any 2 conversion kits, FFG is going to make a **** ton of money off of us and probably couldn't care less that sales are going to drop between now and September. Those kits probably cost less than $7 each to manufacture and ship. 2e is going to be a masterfully crafted and calculated windfall for FFG. 

You are insane if you think they are manufacturing those kits for $7.

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1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

You are insane if you think they are manufacturing those kits for $7.

Chinese manufacturing, only contains printed cardstock and plastic bases and pegs that are all the same, no models? I was under the impression that the bulk of the manufacturing costs comes from the model and the painting. What's  your educated estimate?

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I'm more worried about the sales for my local FLGS dropping on the 1e products. It's a new store in a small rural community with healthy inventory. I don't want to see it go under if they have to unload all that at a reduced price. Wonder if FFG will offer some kind of trade in deal for the store with extra inventory that they can't move.

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25 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:
  1. Catalog current collection
  2. Determine how many conversion kits required
  3. Determine how many "left over" parts you will have after conversion
  4. Buy wanted models on clearance to fill your leftovers
  5. Trade leftovers to supplement models you have too many of

You forgot....

6. Profit

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7 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

I'm more worried about the sales for my local FLGS dropping on the 1e products. It's a new store in a small rural community with healthy inventory. I don't want to see it go under if they have to unload all that at a reduced price. Wonder if FFG will offer some kind of trade in deal for the store with extra inventory that they can't move.

They could crack a conversion kit and sell the ships with the 2nd Ed. upgrades. They could also take back extra conversion kit bits from players to do the same. 

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23 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Chinese manufacturing, only contains printed cardstock and plastic bases and pegs that are all the same, no models? I was under the impression that the bulk of the manufacturing costs comes from the model and the painting. What's  your educated estimate?

No concrete numbers as I am not in the industry, but consider this: Printer ink is worth more than human blood (this factoid may or may not be accurate, but it is close enough). High quality cardboard isn't cheap either. Together they are...really freaking expensive. Boardgames that come with less cardboard and only cheap wood figures cost almost as much as these kits, for a good reason. When it comes down to just materials, cardboard is more expensive than the miniatures. Of course those also increase the price with getting painted and the cost of their molds, but cardboard still is a pretty large cost factor.

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On 5/2/2018 at 11:28 AM, Tvboy said:

Chinese manufacturing, only contains printed cardstock and plastic bases and pegs that are all the same, no models? I was under the impression that the bulk of the manufacturing costs comes from the model and the painting. What's  your educated estimate?

 

People keep quoting me and responding in not very nice tones. It's hurting my feelings so I deleted this post. Just stop already. I thought the X-wing community was supposed to be nice. Sheesh.

Edited by Parakitor

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1 minute ago, Parakitor said:

I don't know about manufacturing, but I know Kickstarter works because people get the money up front, then produce the product. FFG as a major games company can't do that. There are so many man hours and other costs that have gone into X-wing Second Edition already, and these conversion kits are "Thank you" letters to the long-time fans of the game. The reason it's $50 for a conversion kit is precisely because there are no expensive plastic models.

Anecdote: It cost me $30 just to print full-color components of Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. No plastic bases, no card board, just somewhat nice paper. These conversion kits probably cost more than $7 just for printing, even in China. Maybe. Not sure about that last statement.

As a large company with contracted manufacturers and factories, FFG benefits from the economies of scale that gives them a discount on these things that people going to Kinkos or printing at home don't get to enjoy because they get to buy in massive bulk quantities and have more control over the source of production. 

Numbers speculation aside, the point is, they probably aren't selling these conversion kits at cost. They are selling these kits most likely for a healthy profit margin, so I wouldn't really call them a "thank you letter" if they are profiting from them, even if they theoretically could have gouged us much harder. That's not really how thank you letters work.

That said, if FFG put out a statement and corroborating info stating that the conversion kits were basically being sold at cost price, I would sing FFG's praises from the rooftops.

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depending on which upgrade you're thinking about you are basically getting the model for $15 instead of $20 at a later date.  Do you own 1 A-wing and are contemplating a 2nd?  Great!  Since you're going to buy the Rebel conversion kit for $50 anyway, you will need a 2nd actual model to fly 2.  Go ahead and buy the $15 one now and save yourself $5 later.  Not to mention you can also use that ship for the next for months in your lists anyway.  And forever, really, since you also own the 1.0 content.

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2 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

As a large company with contracted manufacturers and factories, FFG benefits from the economies of scale that gives them a discount on these things that people going to Kinkos or printing at home don't get to enjoy because they get to buy in massive bulk quantities and have more control over the source of production. 

Numbers speculation aside, the point is, they probably aren't selling these conversion kits at cost. They are selling these kits most likely for a healthy profit margin, so I wouldn't really call them a "thank you letter" if they are profiting from them, even if they theoretically could have gouged us much harder. That's not really how thank you letters work.

That said, if FFG put out a statement and corroborating info stating that the conversion kits were basically being sold at cost price, I would sing FFG's praises from the rooftops.

Yeah, they are definitly selling these at a profit, but I don't think the margin is larger than on their usual inventory. They definitly aren't being charitable here, but they aren't ripping us off either. At least not more than usually :D

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There is shipping and tariffs and packaging, not to mention the hours upon hours of design. 

Sure some of that will get made up in different ways but at about $1.50 rough estimate per ship to upgrade not bad. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

No concrete numbers as I am not in the industry, but consider this: Printer ink is worth more than human blood (this factoid may or may not be accurate, but it is close enough). High quality cardboard isn't cheap either. Together they are...really freaking expensive. Boardgames that come with less cardboard and only cheap wood figures cost almost as much as these kits, for a good reason. When it comes down to just materials, cardboard is more expensive than the miniatures. Of course those also increase the price with getting painted and the cost of their molds, but cardboard still is a pretty large cost factor.

Printer ink is expensive, because the price is artificially inflated for us, end users. The material is actually extremely cheap. Look it up. It's actually pretty aggravating. Printer ink is pretty much the same as regular ink. The cartridge "costs" a lot. 

In reality, it is the Printer that is the expensive part, but printer companies ship the costs to the ink, because reasons. So you buy printers at a lower price, but ink at a premium...

That's my fact of the day. 

25 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I don't know about manufacturing, but I know Kickstarter works because people get the money up front, then produce the product. FFG as a major games company can't do that. There are so many man hours and other costs that have gone into X-wing Second Edition already, and these conversion kits are "Thank you" letters to the long-time fans of the game. The reason it's $50 for a conversion kit is precisely because there are no expensive plastic models.

Anecdote: It cost me $30 just to print full-color components of Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. No plastic bases, no card board, just somewhat nice paper. These conversion kits probably cost more than $7 just for printing, even in China. Maybe. Not sure about that last statement.

Again, as an end user, your stuff is waaaaay more expensive. Mass manufacturing things is ridiculously cheap. 

And I'd be surprised if FFG couldn't put the money down before :) They are filthy rich. 

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1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:
  1. Catalog current collection
  2.  Determine how many conversion kits required
  3. Determine how many "left over" parts you will have after conversion
  4. Buy wanted models on clearance to fill your leftovers
  5. Trade leftovers to supplement models you have too many of

1. Done

2. 1 Imperial kit

3. 1 TIE Fighter and 1 Lambda, plus FO stuff

4. Meh. No need, except for maybe some more Advanced and TAPs

5. Why would I? I'm still gonna play 1.0

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Just an FYI it cost between 1-3 cents to print typical gaming cards. I don't think $7 is a wacky estimate at all. However you also have shipping, tariffs and development costs as pointed out, and then customer service cost for replacing all the missing peaces. Also keep in mind if this is retail for $50, FFG probably sales it to the distributor for $25. If the manufacturing costs were any higher than $7 FFG would be in trouble with this product. All the real cost of that $50 comes after manufacturing or before. So thinking that a $50 product cost more than $7 to manufacture is pretty silly and thinking that $7 is the only associated cost is too rather silly.

The real meat of this comes down to how much is in a conversion kit. If they are pretty skimpy forcing most to buy two when for another $1 in manufacturing costs they could have had a full box with everything anyone would ever need, then it becomes very frustrating indeed. FFG has a bad habit of this, especially when it comes to their LCG core sets, where they want people to buy 3 of them and pay another $80 to basically gain access to another $1-$2 worth of printed cards. That is what I want to know more about.

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2 minutes ago, Mep said:

Just an FYI it cost between 1-3 cents to print typical gaming cards. I don't think $7 is a wacky estimate at all. However you also have shipping, tariffs and development costs as pointed out, and then customer service cost for replacing all the missing peaces. Also keep in mind if this is retail for $50, FFG probably sales it to the distributor for $25. If the manufacturing costs were any higher than $7 FFG would be in trouble with this product. All the real cost of that $50 comes after manufacturing or before. So thinking that a $50 product cost more than $7 to manufacture is pretty silly and thinking that $7 is the only associated cost is too rather silly.

The real meat of this comes down to how much is in a conversion kit. If they are pretty skimpy forcing most to buy two when for another $1 in manufacturing costs they could have had a full box with everything anyone would ever need, then it becomes very frustrating indeed. FFG has a bad habit of this, especially when it comes to their LCG core sets, where they want people to buy 3 of them and pay another $80 to basically gain access to another $1-$2 worth of printed cards. That is what I want to know more about.

As someone who plays only 1 faction... I think the conversion kit is pretty fair. I don't think I would want more of any ship than it is present there... Maybe another ship, here and there, depending on how the game is going to look like. If the TAP is great, I might get a 4th one. But aside from that, I really think it is fair..

Look at it from another point of view.... if you only bought 1-2 ships of each small ship, and 1 of every large ship, would you be happy to pay 80$ to have 4-6 of every small ship

I don't think so. The conversion kit is a fair compromise between those who buy everything, and those who just buy a few. 

 

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