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Pollux85

Hypothetical IA 2nd edition

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1 hour ago, neosmagus said:

Mansions of Madness second edition released new tiles, heroes, etc, and didn't worry about compatibility with the older set or expansions, but offered a conversion kit to let you use the old components in the new system, and then released those components in new edition expansions for those that didn't have 1st edition already...    So that could work with IA....

Conversion kits could work, but what would be the point?

Mansions of Madness 2nd ed. made away with a lot of cards, setup work (which needed to be 100% correct), and complexity by hiding all of it behind the app. You get less in the box for a better playing experience. In the conversion kits you pretty much buy a new game to use your old miniatures (which is about what X-Wing 2.0 is doing, but for different reasons than switching to app).

Conversion kits would provide a way to migrate to a 2nd edition of Imperial Assault without invalidating the existing expansions, but what are the reasons to have a 2nd edition in the first place?

The thread asks what do you want to see in a hypothetical 2nd edition, but without knowing why 2nd edition was necessary in the first place, you could just as well ask what you want to see in future expansions.

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Don’t Think of a new core as a replacement for old the core but as a parallel product. 

The original core and expansions are their own ecosystem. The new core would be its own thing and a new base for future expansions to build on. 

I do think that skirmish mode could use a 1.2 set of updated unit cards or an app like x-wing. The campaign mode cards are fine as is.

IA biggest problems are not mechanical, they are in set up time and product format.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, a1bert said:

Conversion kits could work, but what would be the point?

Mansions of Madness 2nd ed. made away with a lot of cards, setup work (which needed to be 100% correct), and complexity by hiding all of it behind the app. You get less in the box for a better playing experience. In the conversion kits you pretty much buy a new game to use your old miniatures (which is about what X-Wing 2.0 is doing, but for different reasons than switching to app).

Conversion kits would provide a way to migrate to a 2nd edition of Imperial Assault without invalidating the existing expansions, but what are the reasons to have a 2nd edition in the first place?

The thread asks what do you want to see in a hypothetical 2nd edition, but without knowing why 2nd edition was necessary in the first place, you could just as well ask what you want to see in future expansions.

I wouldn't say a 2nd edition is necessary any more than another expansion is necessary. At least not for a campaign exclusive player like me. 

But I would say I laid out my reasoning for things that could stand to be improved. The agenda set system is repetitive and doesn't feel very effective. I'd also say the same can for most villains and allies. Earning them is such a matter of chance that it has never really seemed worth it for me. Addressing those two things right there would have such a fundamental change to the game that I think that would warrant calling it a 2nd edition.

Edited by Pollux85

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7 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

The agenda set system is repetitive and doesn't feel very effective. I'd also say the same can for most villains and allies....

Addressing those two things right there would have such a fundamental change to the game that I think that would warrant calling it a 2nd edition.

I don't think I have heard that the agenda set system is repetitive. My largest gripe is not getting enough influence when you keep losing. It's a reward issue, not an agenda rule issue. (Even when there are some sets that are better than others, if you always pick the same 6 sets and the same imperial class, then it's more of a player issue.) The agenda card limit already encourages to play agenda cards, so you should get more varied missions. With the seemingly rising rebel hero power curve the amount of influence could be increased.

Use of allies and villains have already had changes in expansions.

Even with more encompassing changes, would neither of them need other than errata though?

Another example: the time period rule still exists, but no new expansion uses it.

And even if the core box gets the string "2nd edition" due to rules change, would the contents change other than the rulebook and a few errata? The old core box would still be compatible.

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Working on the assumption that in this context "2nd Edition" means "rules changes", I'd like to see:

  • Points adjustments for various units (when was the last time you saw anyone use a Nexu in Skirmish? When was the last time you saw a tournament without eWeequays everywhere?). This could equally be in an errata though.
  • Time periods restored. Just change the rule to say "this is an optional rule, for a more open-ended experience ignore it". Then provide time periods for the stuff that didn't bother with it. This could also be in an errata.
  • A couple of Imperial classes (Hutt Mercenaries, and the one that deals out Strain, can't remember what it's called) are just broken good, and no fun. Again... this could be errata'd.
  • Changes to Allies and Villains. My group of Rebel players never want to take Allies because of the Threat bonus it would give me, so they don't really want to do Ally Side Missions either. And as the Imperial player, I feel much the same way about Villains. The entire mechanic needs a fresh look.
  • Line of Sight... I mean, personally, I think it's brilliant. I think it's a really clever way to resolve something that I've never seen done well in any square-based boardgame. I also find it fairly simple to resolve. But my rebel players (who don't religiously pore over the rules and appendices), and probably half my opponents in tournaments, just don't get it. The single most commonly asked question that I hear constantly while playing this game is, "can I see him from here?", and often the answer is unexpected. That's a bad sign, so again, this needs an overhaul.
  • Command Cards. Again, I like them as they are, but a really common complaint I hear from people I try to introduce to Skirmish is that choosing units to 40 points is easy, then they have to build this entire second list of other cards that (despite how many of them there are) you probably know exactly which ones you're going to take every time, so why have them at all? And the inaccessibility of them (I have every expansion yet released for this game, so I'm fine; new players won't have that) is a real blocker to getting people to pick the game up. To get started, they need at least one Core Set, at least one big-box expansion with the tiles for the current tournament missions, all the units they want to use, and a bunch more unit packs they don't want to use but will be handicapped if they don't pick them up for the Command Cards. That's not ideal... as it stands, there's a very, very hard limit on how popular/successful IA Skirmish and Tournaments are ever going to be.

Overall though... I just don't see much need for a 2nd Ed. Effectively, Imperial Assault is already Descent 3rd Ed (and it's a much better game than Descent 2nd) so it's already had two previous editions full of mistakes to learn from, it's already pretty polished. More expansion packs? Yes please. A mission designer? Yes please! More for the app? Sure, I guess. Campaign books (not full boxes) that don't need more models etc.? Yeah, that sounds good. But a second edition...? I don't really see enough wrong with what we have, for that to be worthwhile.

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Oooh, ooh, ooh! Just thought - there is something I would like to see, but that wouldn't need a new edition to do it; but it does fulfil the criteria in the original post about advancing the gameplay or adding a new system in some way.

Why on earth isn't there a set of "movie challenge" scenarios? Say... one player gets Obi-wan, Luke, Solo, Chewie, C-3PO and R2-D2. The other player gets Darth Vader and an infinite supply of Stormtroopers. The board is laid out like a part of the Death Star, and the Rebels must try to escape. Or... it's Luke, Leia, and Lando versus Jabba, a Rancor and various Scum, in Jabba's Palace. Or... well, you get the idea. Scenes from the movies for us to replay and see if we can do as well as the "historical" result. Some of this you could sort of fudge by picking appropriate Skirmish lists for each side, but I don't think that'd be very satisfactory. Specific scenarios really could be. This would make a fourth game mode (after Skirmish, Campaign, and the app), it'd probably be really good for introducing new players, and they could put up a new scenario PDF on the website every month. Might even encourage people to buy more models to be able to play through the latest scenario.

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18 minutes ago, Bitterman said:

Oooh, ooh, ooh! Just thought - there is something I would like to see, but that wouldn't need a new edition to do it; but it does fulfil the criteria in the original post about advancing the gameplay or adding a new system in some way.

Why on earth isn't there a set of "movie challenge" scenarios? Say... one player gets Obi-wan, Luke, Solo, Chewie, C-3PO and R2-D2. The other player gets Darth Vader and an infinite supply of Stormtroopers. The board is laid out like a part of the Death Star, and the Rebels must try to escape. Or... it's Luke, Leia, and Lando versus Jabba, a Rancor and various Scum, in Jabba's Palace. Or... well, you get the idea. Scenes from the movies for us to replay and see if we can do as well as the "historical" result. Some of this you could sort of fudge by picking appropriate Skirmish lists for each side, but I don't think that'd be very satisfactory. Specific scenarios really could be. This would make a fourth game mode (after Skirmish, Campaign, and the app), it'd probably be really good for introducing new players, and they could put up a new scenario PDF on the website every month. Might even encourage people to buy more models to be able to play through the latest scenario.

Yeah, I'd love a fourth mode like that.  Wouldn't necessarily even have to exclusively be movie moments (though I'd want a lot of those too) but could just be specific challenges.  Maybe have an arena battle where Mak and Fenn have to fight off Nexus, Wampas, and Rancors.

 

Or maybe a huge battle, with all trooper types and heroes on one side and a ton of generic imperials on the other.

 

There's a lot they could do with something like that.

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Nice, May have to script some movie scenarios for my group at some point. 

Also planning a few horde / arena mode missions for the mega campaign I'm brainstorming

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56 minutes ago, Bitterman said:

Oooh, ooh, ooh! Just thought - there is something I would like to see, but that wouldn't need a new edition to do it; but it does fulfil the criteria in the original post about advancing the gameplay or adding a new system in some way.

Why on earth isn't there a set of "movie challenge" scenarios? Say... one player gets Obi-wan, Luke, Solo, Chewie, C-3PO and R2-D2. The other player gets Darth Vader and an infinite supply of Stormtroopers. The board is laid out like a part of the Death Star, and the Rebels must try to escape. Or... it's Luke, Leia, and Lando versus Jabba, a Rancor and various Scum, in Jabba's Palace. Or... well, you get the idea. Scenes from the movies for us to replay and see if we can do as well as the "historical" result. Some of this you could sort of fudge by picking appropriate Skirmish lists for each side, but I don't think that'd be very satisfactory. Specific scenarios really could be. This would make a fourth game mode (after Skirmish, Campaign, and the app), it'd probably be really good for introducing new players, and they could put up a new scenario PDF on the website every month. Might even encourage people to buy more models to be able to play through the latest scenario.

Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes!

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3 hours ago, 54NCH32 said:

Nice, May have to script some movie scenarios for my group at some point. 

Also planning a few horde / arena mode missions for the mega campaign I'm brainstorming

A horde mode sounds fun actually. 

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32 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

A horde mode sounds fun actually. 

I created a one off IA vs xenomorph horde mode for my group a few months ago (got some cards and set-up info in my painting thread if you want more info) , and they loved it. So I'll be looking into some more thematic horde set-ups (i.e. jedi vs troopers etc). Just finding the time to do it really :)

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I feel like they will exhaust all of the original trilogy content, which means some Rogue one, Endor, Yoda etc... and then release a new version which will be based around the new trilogy.  From there they can draw on whatever new content is released around this time period as I am sure Disney has lots planned.

 

But if the physical content has slowed down as the app takes over resources then I can see them being able to stretch the OT material for at least two more worlds. 

 

In summary, a new edition is inevitable but I feel that it won't be for at least a few years.

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