How are Critical Strikes handled?

[DanGers 55]

Do we know how critical strikes are handled now?  The example Beginner Game character sheet for Akodo Masako has sections for Endurance, Critical Strikes, and Conditions across the top.  The Critical Strikes section appears to have four boxes, maybe check-boxes.  Any guess as to what those are for?  If any Fantasy Flight staff are reading, would you give us a hint?

In the beta, characters could suffer critical strikes that sometimes left permanent conditions ("maimed leg", etc).  There was a chart explaining what condition occurred depending on the value of the critical strike.  It seemed like a good idea, but consulting another chart was a bit cumbersome in practice and when running the game I instead encouraged players inflicting critical strikes to narrate the results a bit, using the table results as guidance only if needed.  Like a lot of things in the beta, though, I suspect we would have incorporated defined critical strikes as we became more comfortable with the game.

Now, I see what looks like a series of check-boxes for critical strikes.   Perhaps player characters can suffer four critical strikes before dying, with each strike carrying some condition.  That seems easier to keep track of and probably more fun.

[sndwurks 1,257]

I hope that it is a Severity / Deadliness system.

Meaning that it is not 4 separate Critical Strikes, but rather a Critical Strike fills in those boxes and when you run out of boxes, you die. That way, you preserve the "death is never more than 4 feet away" feel of the setting.

[Kaiba6798 22]

with as much lore and environment that they try to put into the aspects of the game I believe ^ is most likely how it will work.

[Tesoe 46]

It might also impose some sort of cumulative penalty like the old wound thresholds did. Maybe add a percentage to rolls on a critical hit chart also.

[AtoMaki 1,431]

They were doing this in the Beta updates, simplifying Critical Strikes into cumulative penalties for TNs. This must be something like that.

Also, that Conditions space is tiny. 

On 5/2/2018 at 7:34 PM, sndwurks said:

"death is never more than 4 feet away" feel of the setting.

 

Pffffff... 

[Mirumoto Seiichiro 36]

12 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

 

Pffffff... 

Agreed with the older editions 4 feet away was the feeling. With the beta death felt more like 4 months travel across 4 countries away.

[AtoMaki 1,431]

7 hours ago, Mirumoto Seiichiro said:

Agreed with the older editions 4 feet away was the feeling. With the beta death felt more like 4 months travel across 4 countries away.

I dunno but I didn't feel it in older editions either. It was more like "death is no further than the closest bushi with SAA". I never had to tread carefully near a Kakita Artisan or an IR 1 rando, fearing that they would cut me down on the spot. 

With the Beta, the real problem was the windy crit table. Hitting that 16+ was kinda tough (I don't count 12-15 because Dying was a joke). We once played a game where the crit table was condensed down so that you could lose your head at 7+. Khorne was pleased.

[Lindhrive 51]

You have clearly never played with a GM who has a horseshoe crammed firmly up their behind.

That said, I'm curious about this, myself. It always seemed to me that the beta's system was less 'three feet from death' and more 'two Opportunity from testing the table's patience for Monty Python and the Holy Grail jokes' - maiming mechanics have not gone over well with our local group after all that Warhammer.

[Mirumoto Seiichiro 36]

On 6/18/2018 at 5:43 PM, Lindhrive said:

 It always seemed to me that the beta's system was less 'three feet from death' and more 'two Opportunity from testing the table's patience for Monty Python and the Holy Grail jokes' - 

I love this so much, you couldn't possible understand how much so.

[M4S-_-T3R 5]

Late reply. But it felt as though the "critical" part of "critical strike" was misleading. Most crits are soaked with a fitness roll, or spend a void to parry and damage your weapon.

The game is much slower paced than previous editions where damage was much more open ended, armor didn't absorb damage so once you are hit you will be taking FULL damage from that weapon. Huge difference in gameplay making FFG edition far less lethal(also armor is just overpowered).

[AtoMaki 1,431]

20 minutes ago, M4S-_-T3R said:

armor didn't absorb damage

1

Uh... it always did. Reduction from armor was actually pretty huge in previous editions too, especially if you had boosts like Strength of the Crab. 

[tenchi2a 442]

4 hours ago, M4S-_-T3R said:

Late reply. But it felt as though the "critical" part of "critical strike" was misleading. Most crits are soaked with a fitness roll, or spend a void to parry and damage your weapon.

The game is much slower paced than previous editions where damage was much more open ended, armor didn't absorb damage so once you are hit you will be taking FULL damage from that weapon. Huge difference in gameplay making FFG edition far less lethal(also armor is just overpowered).

As AtoMaki stated in 4th it did both.

example:

Heavy armor:

Bonus to TN: +10

Damage Reduction: 5

Light armor:

Bonus to TN: +5

Damage Reduction: 3

[M4S-_-T3R 5]

I failed to mention I didn't play 3rd or 4th. Played 1st and 2nd extensively and neither had armor absorption. I've heard 3rd and 4th both improved on the game but I just don't have any knowledge of them.

[mouthymerc 4,483]

Critical strikes in the beginner game may have been simplified much like they were for the Star Wars beginners boxes. In the LotFR beginners box critical strikes come in four levels each of which inflict certain conditions. This may be different in the actual game much like it was with Star Wars.

[Lindhrive 51]

I didn't know Star Wars was scaled back in the Beginner Boxes. Not to go interrogating you, though, but may I ask what those conditions are like at each level? I'm just kinda anxious over the whole your-ninja's-legs-are-off-hope-you-didn't-want-closure thing.

[mouthymerc 4,483]

By conditions I was referring more to effects. First crit gives you three strife, second increases TN of next check by one, third increases TN of all checks by one, fourth gives you the incapacitated condition.

Edited August 5, 2018 by mouthymerc

[Lindhrive 51]

Ah, gotcha! That seems straightforward. Thank you very much!

[drakahn99 1]

On 8/4/2018 at 7:34 PM, Lindhrive said:

I didn't know Star Wars was scaled back in the Beginner Boxes. Not to go interrogating you, though, but may I ask what those conditions are like at each level? I'm just kinda anxious over the whole your-ninja's-legs-are-off-hope-you-didn't-want-closure thing.

1st critical strike = painful blow (suffer 3 strife)

2nd critical strike = minor injury ( increase the TN on the next check they attempt by 1, this is not an ongoing effect)

3rd critical strike = doubling injury (the TN of all checks are increased by 1 until the critical strike is healed)

4th critical strike = serious injury (the character suffers from the incapacitated condition until the critical strike is healed)

 

keep in mind that the katakana and most bladed weapons contain the "Razors Edge" trait that inflicts the bleed condition when used in a critical strike)

this  is from the introduction to l5r box set.

[sidescroller 137]

I like that they simplified it, but I sure hope they bring back a maiming mechanic. Like the 4th critical strike could be pretty easily changed to a permanent injury.

And if you don’t like that katana fights can remove limbs, then you don’t really like katana fights  

 

Edit: and first critical strike only inflicting strife seems *wimpy*. Double fatigue, maybe? Though I haven’t actually gotten to play these new rules yet, so maybe I’ll sing a different song soon. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by sidescroller

[mouthymerc 4,483]

Much like critical strikes were simplified for the beginners boxes for Srar Wars, I think the same has been done here.

[AtoMaki 1,431]

Man, I do hope they have some extra-slashy Critical Damage Table in their sleeves for the full game. I want lots of severed limbs and brutal deaths in my 5R5 games !

[Lindhrive 51]

4 hours ago, mouthymerc said:

Much like critical strikes were simplified for the beginners boxes for Srar Wars, I think the same has been done here.

I do worry, still. I noted the line about permanent injuries in the text about Critical Strikes. I shall be rather cross if they’re still in in the final book!

I’ll still buy and play it, of course. But I’ll kvetch. 

[gareth_lazelle 53]

Looking at the LtP rules, and given that you are incapacitated when you exceed fatigue (and some attacks can rip through fatigue) I was wondering if perhaps loss of fatigue was what ultimately lead to death, whilst critical strikes might be more for special effects and other cool effects on the way to death?

Part of the reason I was thinking this was the thought that racking up critical strikes is a slow process, but you can be incapacitated by fatigue loss very quickly (this might also tie in with the blood loss mechanic) .

I do however appreciate that this would be a significant change to the SW rules,

[AtoMaki 1,431]

26 minutes ago, gareth_lazelle said:

Looking at the LtP rules, and given that you are incapacitated when you exceed fatigue

1

This is a change because, in the Beta, you started to take critical damage after capping out Fatigue. 

Tho this is funny... "I'm giving up guys, too tired to fight!" 

[Lindhrive 51]

13 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

 

Tho this is funny... "I'm giving up guys, too tired to fight!" 

Supposedly, the samurai Sanada Yukimura’s last words, addressed to an attacker after many hours leading the defense of Osaka, were ‘Would that I could provide you a decent fight, but I am so tired.’

(Only in Japanese.)

Edited August 16, 2018 by Lindhrive