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CBMarkham

X-Wing 2.0: They got everything right.

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Really looking forward to this. Obviously it's too early to say they've fixed everything but what I've seen appears to be going in the right direction. There are a couple of minor annoyances, including the fact I'll have to look at my storage solutions again with the upgrade card changes and the dials being bigger. Also a little confused by the distribution of content in the conversion kits. 3 Decimators? Really. Only 2 Defenders but 3 Inquisitor's TIEs is also very odd and feels a little bit cynical to me.

While I understand it's not great having to spend money on a new edition I think FFG have largely gone about it in the right way. They can't win really. We've had people asking for a 2nd edition for ages but when they do announce it they get people complaining they're going to have to pay for it. It was never going to be free and the conversion kits seem pretty well priced, despite the problems I've highlighted. It may well be that with the changes they're making you won't want to take more than 2 Defenders any more, for example. The app-based squad building is a great idea. There's going to be a browser-based version of it too so I really can't understand people's complaints about needing a smartphone. I can't remember the last person I met who doesn't have one, including my parents, who are both in their 70s!

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7 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Actually in the TC interview it has been stated that all pilots from 1st will make it into 2nd and everyone has been adjusted. Not sure how that will look like, but it sure sounds exciting!

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. J/k, but look at the picture below:

swz07_a1_tie-advance_spread2.png

Why does Zertik Strom now have Lt. Colzet's ability, while this Ved Foslo character has taken Juno Eclipse's ability? It doesn't make sense unless some poor souls didn't make the cut. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Your words have given me hope...but I seem to remember Navarro saying the word "almost" in his statement, so there are sure to be casualties. But I'll keep the faith!

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56 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. J/k, but look at the picture below:

swz07_a1_tie-advance_spread2.png

Why does Zertik Strom now have Lt. Colzet's ability, while this Ved Foslo character has taken Juno Eclipse's ability? It doesn't make sense unless some poor souls didn't make the cut. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Your words have given me hope...but I seem to remember Navarro saying the word "almost" in his statement, so there are sure to be casualties. But I'll keep the faith!

It looks like they want to rein in the Canon aspect. Resistance, First Order? New factions that don't seem to be able to play with their father factions at all, which is good IMO.

I mean ****, Iden Versio and Gideon Hask are both TIE Fighter pilots (Though Hask should be a TIE Interceptor pilot IMO.)- so really, they're reining it in. I really want to see Shriv Surrgav as a resident X-Wing pilot.

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19 minutes ago, Krodarklorr said:

Why have evades been nerfed? Can anyone fill me in? Also, are Focuses still working the same as well?

They only convert a die to a success now. Focus is unchanged. Just to prevent ships from regularily shrugging off 3+ hits. Way weaker, but hopefully it will be availiable as white push to fragile ships.

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1 hour ago, Krodarklorr said:

Why have evades been nerfed? Can anyone fill me in? Also, are Focuses still working the same as well?

Supposedly, Red-Dice power creep is also down, so fragile but agile ships should have an easier time to survive.

However, focus seems to be now a much superior choice to evade. Evade may be worthy only if you somehow manage to have already a focus token.

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7 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Supposedly, Red-Dice power creep is also down, so fragile but agile ships should have an easier time to survive.

However, focus seems to be now a much superior choice to evade. Evade may be worthy only if you somehow manage to have already a focus token.

Yeah, focus does seem like a superior choice. However, does evade turn a blank into a success? Because if so, I could see the trade off.

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I just bought X-Wing last year and I only have one old and new core set, the Falcon and Slave 1 expansion. So the conversion kits are no good solution for me.

If I buy a new core set and the new Falcon and Slave expansion, is there a way so I can at least use the old models as well? What do I need at least to use them?

Did the dice change as well?

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6 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

I wonder who will be the 1st official Threat-5 ship...

Probably one of the big ships, like Dash Rendar, Han, RAC... I can also imagine the Ghost as 4-5 (depending on pilot) with additional threat from the Attack Shuttle.

Edited by Admiral Deathrain

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2 hours ago, Jike said:

Really looking forward to this. Obviously it's too early to say they've fixed everything but what I've seen appears to be going in the right direction. There are a couple of minor annoyances, including the fact I'll have to look at my storage solutions again with the upgrade card changes and the dials being bigger. Also a little confused by the distribution of content in the conversion kits. 3 Decimators? Really. Only 2 Defenders but 3 Inquisitor's TIEs is also very odd and feels a little bit cynical to me.

While I understand it's not great having to spend money on a new edition I think FFG have largely gone about it in the right way. They can't win really. We've had people asking for a 2nd edition for ages but when they do announce it they get people complaining they're going to have to pay for it. It was never going to be free and the conversion kits seem pretty well priced, despite the problems I've highlighted. It may well be that with the changes they're making you won't want to take more than 2 Defenders any more, for example. The app-based squad building is a great idea. There's going to be a browser-based version of it too so I really can't understand people's complaints about needing a smartphone. I can't remember the last person I met who doesn't have one, including my parents, who are both in their 70s!

I’m really sensitive to the “FFG can’t win for trying point of view.”  I can appreciate a lot of what they are trying to do with the game and some of the decisions are clearly good.  The stated desire to get the game back to how you fly not how many copies of card X you can jam into a list seems good.  The idea of conversion kits is good and logistically it makes way more sense to do a big kit even if it means you will be wasting a lot of the materials.  But some of the decisions don’t seem really necessary.  How many ships really need new maneuver dials?  Yeah it’s nice to get a redesign but is it needed?  Even worse is the bases.  The new bases are not substantially different than the old ones.  They’re just “new.”  Even if they are introducing medium sized bases they could maintain the large and small from before.  

Other issues like the app.  I appreciate the idea, and I have no problem integrating it into my games.  But if we are going to keep all the card values in the app why sell us a bunch of cards?  Just put the virtual cards in the app.  Or let us have just a single copy of the card and then it can be applied to multiple ships in a squad.  That kind of thing I could really get behind because I have zero reason to own a bunch of E-wings except that they give me some good cards.  But I’m certain that’s not going to happen.

People are assuming that the ability to re-stat the cards will mean constant tweaking and balancing.  This is based on the assumption that rolling out errata or printing cards is what has prevented more game balance adjustments.  I somehow doubt this.  My fear is that the app is going to be a bug filled mess that is rarely updated and when it is people will complain that they have to keep modifying their lists as a result of the point value changes.  Further, as an at home player if my friends and I want to mix factions we just do it.  Drop the cards on the table and follow the rules in general.  Is the app going to let me do that?  An imperfectly balanced printed card value at least gives me some guidance about making even sides of I want to make some house rules.

Mostly I am now in a situation where I am going to have to make a lot of choices about what to do and they aren’t making it easy for me.  The money is just an element of hassle.  I have already dropped $300 on Legion and I haven’t even played a single game yet.  Even if I have to get two of each upgrade kit, I have the money. I don’t mind spending money, but I don’t want to WASTE it if the new game isn’t going to improve my experience.  And right now I really can’t say if it is.  Add to that my expectation that the shift to 2.0 will take forever, be accompanied by slow release schedules and under supplies conversion kits and even accepting that 2.0 will be a better experience it might be two years before it fully catches up to 1.0.  And I barely have time to play 1.0 let alone have a foot in both games.

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Quote

 

Is this really FFG?

 

While it does sound good, I fear it will be classic FFG all over again - that is to say - that the game will likely be unbalanced competitively and poorly playtested (as in not enough resources & time devoted to playtesting).
Just like most business out there, it is all about the eternal pursuit of dosh & how quick you can push your product.

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20 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

I wonder who will be the 1st official Threat-5 ship...

Of what's spoiled? Luke 

Action efficiency seems to be at an absolute premium in 2.0 (from what VERY little we've seen, like the nerfed fcs, PTL removal, and the ffg mission statement) so anyone with built in efficiency is immidiately worth considering 

And given protorps have some REALLY good built in efficiency (4 dice with rerolls + focus --> crit, two shots) any high ps torp launch could be scary 

Also with less action efficiency, JAM becomes a lot scarier 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Of what's spoiled? Luke 

Action efficiency seems to be at an absolute premium in 2.0 (from what VERY little we've seen, like the nerfed fcs, PTL removal, and the ffg mission statement) so anyone with built in efficiency is immidiately worth considering 

And given protorps have some REALLY good built in efficiency (4 dice with rerolls + focus --> crit, two shots) any high ps torp launch could be scary 

Also with less action efficiency, JAM becomes a lot scarier 

Luke is a 3 and basically worth 3 TIE Fighters. That doesn't look like the best matchup, but we'll have to see how those TIEs play.

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Something’s thats been said already probably here and definitely in other threads, is that components of the whole conversion kits will undoubtedly be for sell on eBay, and I’m sure on other online stores as well.

What if I want to run 4x T-65’s? Well, I buy one conversion kit, then buy the additional components I need for the other two X’s on eBay. And maybe while I’m at it I sell some of the components I don’t need of the conversion kit I bought to make a little bit of my money back. That doesn’t seem all that bad.

Now, I would be upset if they charge for the app though. I’m already throwing a minimum of $100 at the game, just to play and use the stuff I already own. If they charge me an additional $5 or whatever for the app (or a ******* monthly subscription fee) I’m going to feel pretty well violated. Sure, the app development costs money, but they’re already milking that out of me for the other stuff.

All and all I’m excited. I hope gameplay picks up at my LGS.

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3 hours ago, Nachtelb said:

I just bought X-Wing last year and I only have one old and new core set, the Falcon and Slave 1 expansion. So the conversion kits are no good solution for me.

If I buy a new core set and the new Falcon and Slave expansion, is there a way so I can at least use the old models as well? What do I need at least to use them?

Did the dice change as well?

Dice remain the same.

If I were in your shoes, and wanted to get into 2.0 I'd buy one core set and one conversion kit. Unfortunately at launch however, Resistance & First Order ships are not going to be supported until they get their own conversion kit.


You currently own these Original Trilogy era ships: Two TIEs and an Imperial Slave 1 (Slave 1 will be Scum only in 2.0), as well as one T-65 X-wing and a Falcon (it doesn't matter if it's the Force Awakens version).
With a new core set and Rebel conversion kit, you'd have Two T-65s, a Falcon and four OT TIEs of which only the 2 from the new Core Set you'll have cardboard for.

I only recommend the Rebel conversion since it will get you the most out of what you have.

You are in a difficult spot, but not terrible as long as you have players in your area that play X-wing and they are going to buy into 2.0 willing to trade, sell or outright donate some of their extra ship tokens, dials etc. from their conversion kits. The biggest obstacle I see is getting your hands on 2.0 upgrade cards of your own unless you get a conversion kit.

Choose a faction and stick to that for now.

If you're just playing casual or at home, there's no real need to go 2.0 if you just want to fly ships around with friends. I have no doubts that Legacy/1.0 leagues will start popping up for people who can't or won't go to 2.0.

I think 1.0 is fun and can continue to be so.

2.0 has an eye towards the future and future-proofing against "bad" ships/pilots/upgrades etc., more so for/because of competitive minded players.

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8 hours ago, Parakitor said:

...what? I...don't even know what to say. Hobbie's ability was just fixed with the new X-wing fix. Now he has Talon Rolls, so he gets some use from his ability. If you were going to include an example of a bad pilot, you could have chosen something like Lt. Lorrir, Kir Kanos, or everybody's favorite target, "Fel's Wrath".

(I'm just poking fun. I totally respect your gripes, but I had to jab at my interceptor buddies...the ones that probably won't make it to second edition. I'm fine. I'll be fine...???)

Yeah, that was just the card I saw in the preview match so its text is 100% confirmed. I'm sure imperials will get far more bad skills.

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5 hours ago, Krodarklorr said:

Yeah, focus does seem like a superior choice. However, does evade turn a blank into a success? Because if so, I could see the trade off.

I mean, focus was basically always superior unless you  were defending against only a tie fighter or were agility 1

evades are currently huge because you can pile it atop focus and thrusters and palpatine and regen...

so far, it seems Phantoms are the evasion masters. They get free evade actions while decloaking, or with Whisper hitting an enemy, and if they take an evade action they can then spend it to cloak (assuming it's not needed)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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15 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Space is not a concern anyway, no one actually needs to read those cards, you just need to bring them alone. Though, we have enough space at home, at friends houses, in the club and in the store as well. No issues there. 18-pocket pages should do just fine. Leaves me a few wasted US-Mini 32-Pocket pages, but as long as the new cards fit just fine and standard pages I still consider it an improvement. Those Ultimate Guard pages were expensive and/or hard to get anyway. So switching one format for all cards is an real improvement. 

You are lucky to have space at all places you play, but at some stores they have custom made tables that exactly fit old sized squadrons with a bit of spare room for accessories. Squadron list size is increased by an average of 20%, so those stores with barely enough table space will get boned for the new cost. And stores without extra space for bigger tables will have to reduce table quantity. In my store, both constraints are true and we could hold a 32 person tournament. Now, we will be forced to spend an extra 20 minutes to setup and cleanup our squads for each match and will not be able to use a quick solution for moving squad lists. If you think 14-pocket pages were hard to find, wait until we get a custom, compact solution for this style of cards. It will be an insanely expensive accordion style sheet and will most probably be KS exclusive. And who reads cards? In my tournaments it is very easy to just give your sheets to your opponent so they check your list instead of moving all the way around (100% of matches), and when an opponent asks to read a card effect (about 25% of matches).

Just like fixed upgrade kits, these small changes won't affect some people but for others it will mean a significantly higher cost.

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