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X-Wing 2.0: They got everything right.

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9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

So the upgrade cards are as big as the pilot cards? They looked still smaller to me. I would be happy to hear that. 

Yes, upgrades are now the same size as pilot cards (standard MTG size). 4 Pocket pages (2x2) can hold the squad, but you will quickly run out of space (and have to rebuy pages). At least in my store the leftover bit of table is very small and can barely hold those pages, so the table won't have enough space for big squads.

Edit: If your store or wherever you play has more space, you can also use 9-pocket pages (3x3).

Edited by falveryn

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Cool. Thank you guys.

1 minute ago, falveryn said:

Edit: If your store or wherever you play has more space, you can also use 9-pocket pages (3x3).

 Space is not a concern anyway, no one actually needs to read those cards, you just need to bring them alone. Though, we have enough space at home, at friends houses, in the club and in the store as well. No issues there. 18-pocket pages should do just fine. Leaves me a few wasted US-Mini 32-Pocket pages, but as long as the new cards fit just fine and standard pages I still consider it an improvement. Those Ultimate Guard pages were expensive and/or hard to get anyway. So switching one format for all cards is an real improvement. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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I don’t think they got everything right.  I think a lot of people are deluding themselves into thinking any and all challenges they had with X wing 1.0 are magically “solved” and therefore the cost of entry is worth it.  I’m hard pressed to see much here that really requires such an elaborate reboot.  

The new maneuver dials are a better design for sure, but they are now larger in size. Meaning there goes my storage solution.  And there seems to be zero actual reason to change the bases.  The new bases feature nothing that couldn’t have been done on the old bases.  Ditto all the cardboard tokens.  “We have changed the focus token art. Therefore we have to give you 25 new focus tokens and gosh, it costs money to print these so get a new starter set for $40.”  The damage deck is the same.

Look, if they are moving the game to be app functional, put the dang damage deck on the app.  I understand the value in being able to instantly upgrade card costs but are they really going to be doing this that much?  I doubt it.  If they say the old maneuver templates are useless I’m going to scream.

 

And I actually have money. I’m a middle aged guy who has more money than time to play the game.  I’m more concerned about all the junk.  I spent literally hundreds of hours cutting storage boxes which work great for all my 1.0 ships and their gear.  So they change the bases and the dials .  It all just so aggravating and despite all the rosy predictions of people who, lets face it, are going to buy anything and everything that gets released, I see very little that suggests the game is changing more than superficially and in a way that could only be accomplished   by selling me 3-5 $50 conversion kits and a new core set I don’t want.

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14 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

I don’t think they got everything right.  I think a lot of people are deluding themselves into thinking any and all challenges they had with X wing 1.0 are magically “solved” and therefore the cost of entry is worth it.  I’m hard pressed to see much here that really requires such an elaborate reboot.  

The new maneuver dials are a better design for sure, but they are now larger in size. Meaning there goes my storage solution.  And there seems to be zero actual reason to change the bases.  The new bases feature nothing that couldn’t have been done on the old bases.  Ditto all the cardboard tokens.  “We have changed the focus token art. Therefore we have to give you 25 new focus tokens and gosh, it costs money to print these so get a new starter set for $40.”  The damage deck is the same.

Look, if they are moving the game to be app functional, put the dang damage deck on the app.  I understand the value in being able to instantly upgrade card costs but are they really going to be doing this that much?  I doubt it.  If they say the old maneuver templates are useless I’m going to scream.

 

And I actually have money. I’m a middle aged guy who has more money than time to play the game.  I’m more concerned about all the junk.  I spent literally hundreds of hours cutting storage boxes which work great for all my 1.0 ships and their gear.  So they change the bases and the dials .  It all just so aggravating and despite all the rosy predictions of people who, lets face it, are going to buy anything and everything that gets released, I see very little that suggests the game is changing more than superficially and in a way that could only be accomplished   by selling me 3-5 $50 conversion kits and a new core set I don’t want.

You spent hundreds of hours making accessories and have more money than time, you must be filthy rich. I agree with you, see my post in the previous page noting some drawbacks. At the same time, I don't think it is strictly a money grabbing scheme. People have been wanting fundamental changes that have appeared here, and some are for good. The execution could be better and could save us money, indeed. Doubling the size of upgrade cards is meaningless, obstructive, increases round's space and time requirements, increases costs, and not to mention that third decimator upgrade no one wants but we are forced to buy it, instead of being something more useful like a third defender. Corners could have been cut in some places to make it cheaper and better, indeed.

Edited by falveryn

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19 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

I don’t think they got everything right.  I think a lot of people are deluding themselves into thinking any and all challenges they had with X wing 1.0 are magically “solved” and therefore the cost of entry is worth it.  I’m hard pressed to see much here that really requires such an elaborate reboot.  

The new maneuver dials are a better design for sure, but they are now larger in size. Meaning there goes my storage solution.  And there seems to be zero actual reason to change the bases.  The new bases feature nothing that couldn’t have been done on the old bases.  Ditto all the cardboard tokens.  “We have changed the focus token art. Therefore we have to give you 25 new focus tokens and gosh, it costs money to print these so get a new starter set for $40.”  The damage deck is the same.

Look, if they are moving the game to be app functional, put the dang damage deck on the app.  I understand the value in being able to instantly upgrade card costs but are they really going to be doing this that much?  I doubt it.  If they say the old maneuver templates are useless I’m going to scream.

 

And I actually have money. I’m a middle aged guy who has more money than time to play the game.  I’m more concerned about all the junk.  I spent literally hundreds of hours cutting storage boxes which work great for all my 1.0 ships and their gear.  So they change the bases and the dials .  It all just so aggravating and despite all the rosy predictions of people who, lets face it, are going to buy anything and everything that gets released, I see very little that suggests the game is changing more than superficially and in a way that could only be accomplished   by selling me 3-5 $50 conversion kits and a new core set I don’t want.

Barring a radical departure from form, your old tokens will still be fine (since they are in every other game FFG produces). The maneuver templates... You will probably need a new 1-forward for barrel rolls and talon rolls. The rest should be fine for casual games (Competitive games... I dunno. The old train tracks method should still work for bumping).

As for the dials... I feel your frustration at the invalidation of your storage space, but the design really is better. If you bought some of the dial upgrade kits, you can always just use those and only store the maneuver portion of the dial, though.

Still, as far as the necessity of this update goes... All of the original trilogy ships needed a massive update, and ships even a few waves back needed one as well. I don't know what else you would expect such a reboot to look like, especially since a lot of the game's problems grew out of early design mistakes (The Tie Swarms superior efficiency, Turrets, Push the Limit, etc) and attempts to correct for them.

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3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Oh my god yes, does anybody know if it gets an upgraded dial? The HWK-290 is a FAST ship dammit!

TELL ME WHAT YOU KNOW OR HOW I CAN LEARN ; _ ;

IS THE DIAL BETTER

what if there is no jan ors that boosts the attack value by one.... I'll cry. 

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2 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

what if there is no jan ors that boosts the attack value by one.... I'll cry. 

What have they done to Roark... or Kyle.

Also of note, they already slaughtered Jake and Ten, I wonder what they did to Tycho... They better not have touched Tycho.

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4 hours ago, Wedgeismyhero said:

We just got the ability to put 5 X-wings on the board, I hope that doesn't go away. I'm also interested to see how Astromechs change overall, seeing as how they may now be cross faction between Scum and Rebel Alliance. 

The X-Wing's expansion has been revealed to come with a generic R2 and R4. The R2 Astromech has R2's ability to recharge shields but only twice instead of three times, and the R4 makes basic (turn, bank, straights) easier or blue maneuvers. I don't have a link but they can be found on the X-wing Reddit and I know I saw an unboxing video of it on YouTube. 

4 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I really want to see how Interceptors turn out, given that the Evade action is weakened and that PTL is gone. I hope they'll be miles better now.

Based off the TC video it seems that the PTL stuff has sort of been built into their actions, I'm imagining that they likely can chain off of most of their standard actions into an additional red action.

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I haven’t had the time to watch the covenant videos yet. I have a relatively large collection I got off someone who was getting out of the game, but I never really started playing because my beloved T-65’s sucked. Then I just found out a few days ago that the T-65 is playable again and got super excited and ready to play some X-Wing, and now I hear that I’m gonna have to buy a bunch more **** just to start playing. What do the conversion kits come with? Are all my upgrade cards obsolete? I’m confused and a little frustrated right now. I can watch the videos tomorrow, but can someone tell me now in simple terms how much of my relatively large collection is useless?

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6 minutes ago, Piney Tinecones said:

I haven’t had the time to watch the covenant videos yet. I have a relatively large collection I got off someone who was getting out of the game, but I never really started playing because my beloved T-65’s sucked. Then I just found out a few days ago that the T-65 is playable again and got super excited and ready to play some X-Wing, and now I hear that I’m gonna have to buy a bunch more **** just to start playing. What do the conversion kits come with? Are all my upgrade cards obsolete? I’m confused and a little frustrated right now. I can watch the videos tomorrow, but can someone tell me now in simple terms how much of my relatively large collection is useless?

From the looks of it, old pilot cards, upgrade cards, maneuver dials, and damage deck are all obsolete in 2.0. So, just about everything except the models themselves. That's the bad news for people in your position.

The conversion kits each come with the pilot cards, upgrade cards, and maneuver dials needed to replace those things for 35-40 different ships of that faction. We don't know exactly how many pilot cards come for each ship, but there are maneuver dials for at least 2 of each ship, more for the cheaper, swarmy ones (and the Decimator, if that isn't a typo?). They also come with around 150 upgrade cards.

It is important to note that upgrades seem to be getting a BIG revamp. A LOT of "must have" cards in the current edition are either going away entirely (because they were fixes that are no longer needed) or their effects are being folded into the core rules and the pilot cards. This "should" mean that 2.0 needs RADICALLY fewer upgrade cards. That is a VERY good thing. The current game was getting seriously bloated with "must have" effects, taking the focus off game play and putting it on list building. 2.0 looks to be fixing that problem.

 

TLDR, someone in your position is probably in the worst possible point. We veterans have had years to absorb the cost of a huge collection so the conversion kits are sort of just another, larger wave and brand new players can just start with the new 2.0 stuff, but you've just spent a bunch and now (in 5 months) you're going to be hit with another big cost. That can certainly suck. I honestly believe, however, that the end result will be worth it. Choose a faction to begin with and in Sept get a new core set and that faction's conversion kit. That should give you loads to play with for a good long while and give you time to decide how to proceed from that point.

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Thanks for explaining that. I see. I mean, that really is a bummer in a lot of ways. Just tonight I was actually proudly thumbing through all my upgrade cards (almost all of the essential ones for competitive play) thinking that it was cool I had all these “format staples,” and that I was in a really good position to be starting a game I’ve been excited to actually get into for awhile now. So that’s a blow. It really is a substantial collection.

BUT... I play Magic (specifically Modern), and the fact of the matter is that I’ll pay good money for stupid *** games if they’re good games. I have a feeling this will turn out pretty well for the game itself.

I hope my LGS gets into it again. I could see it going either way. Either this will be the last straw and the few people who were hanging on will throw their stuff in a plastic storage container in their attic indefinitely, or this will be a morale boost and the old players will be happy with the changes and new players will hop aboard. We’ll see. And I’ll be somewhere awkwardly in the middle.

I guess I’ll hang on to all my old cards. Maybe they’ll be worth something like ABU Magic cards some day if the game manages to stick around long enough. Who knows. I love Star Wars though, it reigned over other childhood obsessions of mine for a long, long time. And I’ve been impressed with X-wing’s gameplay/design since the first time I saw it played. I just wish they would’ve gotten all of it right the first time. Should’ve used some force vision.

Still, I’m sure I’ll end up buying the stupid stuff. It’s eventually going to take a lot of conversion kits though to get all my ships squared away *folds arms and audibly huffs*

Thanks again for explaining that. I really do appreciate it.

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Looking at the video they did with TC I can't help but appreciate this even more. This is such a game changer and makes the game so much more consistent, less cluttery, more future proof... I can not wait to put everything on the table and see how it plays out, especially the more obscure ships like Quadjumpers, non-Miranda K-Wings, non-Nym Scurrgs, M3As, TIE-Punishers (oh definitly TIE Punishers), but also all the movie ships, whom it feels like I haven't seen in such a long time!

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7 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I really want to see how Interceptors turn out, given that the Evade action is weakened and that PTL is gone. I hope they'll be miles better now.

Have seen that mentioned once or twice - details?

(I mean, the evade action has always been...uhhh...of relatively minimal utility on its own, without stacking effects, that largely seem to be going away here.  So...somewhat surprised to hear it is weakened.  Pls more info?)

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The evade action was mentioned in the version 2 game with Alex Davey. The evade action no longer adds a result, it just changes a die. So if you rolled *blank blank evade*, the effect would be the same as the old evade action netting you two evades. However, it means that no ship can evade a number of hits higher than its agility value, like a Token Stacked Autothruster Palpatine Soontir Fel could have in the evade dice modification days of the past. I think it is a good change.

 

Random side note though - I'm a bit disappointed that we are keeping the same dice. I know a lot of people would have complained if they needed to buy yet another new product to keep playing, but I was just hoping that 2.0 would have added ordnance dice like in Armada...

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9 hours ago, period3 said:

2. No imperial slave 1.   I have two of these, and zero interest in the scum faction.  That sucks that I can't use two of my ships.  I hope this is the only omission, I haven' t thoroughly gone through the list yet. 

No imperial Slave 1, definitively. Firespray only available to Scum faction. :(

No omission, just f***d up ?

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They screw us over badly with the conversion kits. Even having 1 of every expansion for Rebels means you have three X-wings, which means **** you, buy a second kit. But please enjoy your two Ghosts, two Phantoms, two Sabine TIEs, and two Phantoms 2, because those are very common to run multiples of...

I'm convinced it's by design, because similar bs happens in the Empire. Do you have three Defenders, like... every Imperial player on the planet? Huh, bad luck, 100 usd, but have fun playing with your triple decimator lists.

 

On the topic of doing things right, a lot of lore-friendly details, e.g. droids can no longer focus, they have calculate action instead, there are new separate slots for gunners, meaning the best ship, ARC-170, should rock a gunner, crew, astro combo, but also (BLT-S3?) Y-wings and TIE/sf will have an extra slot.

Another thing in a similar vein, with the removal of 4 actions limit and additions of red actions, combined with including all the new actions  from the start, ships be able to do stuff they should be doing but for various reasons couldn't before - like A-wing's barrel roll that didn't fit, or Decimator's coordinate which didn't exist.

EDIT I'd forgot, they specifically mentioned that there are no slots on pilot cards not just to leave an option for tweaking, but also in case they release a ship and later learn about it's capabilities that they weren't aware of - in this system TIE Striker would most likely receive a bomb and a gunner slot after the R1 Visual Guide publication. Neat :)

Edited by eMeM

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7 hours ago, falveryn said:

2) Could have used this chance to improve bad pilot skills, like Hobbie Klivian.

...what? I...don't even know what to say. Hobbie's ability was just fixed with the new X-wing fix. Now he has Talon Rolls, so he gets some use from his ability. If you were going to include an example of a bad pilot, you could have chosen something like Lt. Lorrir, Kir Kanos, or everybody's favorite target, "Fel's Wrath".

(I'm just poking fun. I totally respect your gripes, but I had to jab at my interceptor buddies...the ones that probably won't make it to second edition. I'm fine. I'll be fine...???)

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22 minutes ago, eMeM said:

They screw us over badly with the conversion kits. Even having 1 of every expansion for Rebels means you have three X-wings, which means **** you, buy a second kit.

There is one X-Wing for 2.0 included in Saw's Renegat expansion. And there should be an epic conversion kit. As your 4th X-Wing is from epic, we might see it included in that kit. 

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I really like the idea of the 2nd edition and almost all the changes they did.

Ships and PS are far better now. Most problems in the game are fixed now or can be fixed pretty easy in the future. The new force-mechanic rox and overall it is a big step forward for the whole game.

BUT there are so bad downsides that I will most likely NOT use 2nd edition.

1.) I would have to buy conversion packs for 400-450€ and have a lot of trash from edition 1 I could just dump

2.) not being shown what upgrades a ship/pilot can use on the card is disastrous - I don't like every player being forced  to run around with a smart-phone. Especially when playing custom-formats with more than 2 players. Also you can't just walk over to your opponent and check the cards lying on the table physically.

3.) Forcing to use an app to play is just a bad decision for me

 

The 2nd edition is neccessary I agree (at least for competetive play) but making the changes that broad will result in a split of communities and player bases. Why? I don't think the majority of players is playin competetive (I might be wrong of course). Many of the casual players that have loads of ships might think twice if they want to spend 300 or more bucks to balance a game that they might like less after the changes. Once more - I agree that chnages are neccessary for many players but changing the game so hard so old stuff cannot be used any more is just ***.

Changes could also have been done without changin the styles so hard you have to buy anything completely new.

I was looking forward to edition two but after reading all the news there are more downsides for me so I most likely won't buy and play 2nd edition. And that makes me sad.

Edited by shadowfriend

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6 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

There is one X-Wing for 2.0 included in Saw's Renegat expansion. And there should be an epic conversion kit. As your 4th X-Wing is from epic, we might see it included in that kit. 

That X-wing was legal in 100/6 and I guarantee that 90% of people who bought it doesn't give a single **** about epic, and FFG knows that. 

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Just now, eMeM said:

That X-wing was legal in 100/6 and I guarantee that 90% of people who bought it doesn't give a single **** about epic, and FFG knows that. 

Considering that they cared about the upgrade cards, we might see them return in that pack as well. ?
Or you you think that all those awesome droids from epic are included in the conversion cards?

Palpatine 2.0 in the standard imperial conversion kit included? Or do you need the epic kit to get your favorite dark lord into 2.0? 

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17 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

...what? I...don't even know what to say. Hobbie's ability was just fixed with the new X-wing fix. Now he has Talon Rolls, so he gets some use from his ability. If you were going to include an example of a bad pilot, you could have chosen something like Lt. Lorrir, Kir Kanos, or everybody's favorite target, "Fel's Wrath".

(I'm just poking fun. I totally respect your gripes, but I had to jab at my interceptor buddies...the ones that probably won't make it to second edition. I'm fine. I'll be fine...???)

Actually in the TC interview it has been stated that all pilots from 1st will make it into 2nd and everyone has been adjusted. Not sure how that will look like, but it sure sounds exciting!

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