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NeverBetTheFett

What a smack in the face...

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Sure.  Getting only one arm amputated hurts less than 2, right?

An actual campaign pack could bring me back to the fold.

Trust me, the fact that I had been pro 2.0 is not lost on me.  I think it's hilarious that this is being so well embraced by what seemed to be a bunch of naysayers. 

They changed cards, dials and stands.   You are rebuying the game; it just looks like you're not rebuying the game. 

Have you seen the gameplay video? It’s quite changed.

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2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I don't want to spend $300 just to get back to where I was.  I could have bought 2 Waves of new stuff.

I'm forced to invest in a game that is only being designed for tournament play.  I mean, it always has been, but this is just obvious proof that this was never meant to be anything but tournament driven.

I'm tired of feeling like this is not a game designed to spend a night replaying the Battle of Scarif, with squadrons of multiple ships being led by our favorite heroes.

Yeah, I can make it that, but the actual official game, it's revisions, it's pole position listing of viable ships, it's multiple adjustments for meta effects (that I don't see on my dining room table), and the overall laissez-faire attitude towards Epic and casual have left me feeling so underserved that I can't justify spending more money on a game that is not interested in my playstyle in the first place.

 

Did you see the threat level quick squad builder method? Set a threat level and pick quick build ships that fit. These are physical cards so no app is needed.

swz01_a1_quick-build.pngcasual squad building is really good in this method.

I bet they have an even better idea for epic then they are ready to share at this time.

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A lot of people discussing costs. I'm going to break this down a little bit to showcase that it's not that bad.

 

Last wave:

I personally purchased:

3 Assault Gunboats

3 Sheathapied Shuttles

1 Tie Silencer

1 BSF17

 

Street pricing for me on all of these together totaled around: $190. Granted I probably bought 2 more Sheath's than average, and 1 more gunboat than average, and 1-2 less Kimo's than average. So lets say the average person spent $150 on the wave. (which I have no evidence or data to back me up in, just theory) Keep in mind Guns for Hire dropped not long before that wave, and many bought 2, but almost everyone 1 due to Harpoons. 

I will assume (however wrong I know I am) that this fall will be strictly a 2.0 release wave. So if you buy 1 core and 2 of the conversion kits... you will be right around $150, the same most on average spent on the wave. So far, Imp's are the only ones I could see a very strong case for needing two conversion kits. But even then I think you could do a lot of trading with others in your community to get what you need. I for example, will only need 1 extra A-Wing for my most used Rebels.

 

Even then, we have NO idea what squad building will look like at the end of the day here. A lot is changing. Point values are changing, equipment cards are changing, abilities are changing. What works (and doesn't) work in today's meta is irrelevant because everything will be different!

On that note, I've seen people go "why play v1.0 when 2.0 is right around the corner". Well, why play Ghost Fenn when you know a new meta of broken'ness is right around the corner? You're still out there playing a game with people you enjoy hanging out with. As some podcasters have elegantly put it, X-Wing is currently a terrible game (I don't think so), and the community is what keeps them going out every week. You still have that! ALSO, competitive play kits bridging this Worlds to v2.0 will have stuff for 2.0 in it!

 

I really do think that FFG is trying to make this as painless as possible. 

 

1: Conversion kits for 14 waves of mayhem, and for at least 2 of each ($50) vs Star Trek Attack Wing - blister packs of cards for each individual craft at $5-10 each

2: giving you 2.0 gear in the Reaper and Saw Renegades expansions vs not giving you anything

3: giving you 2.0 gear in organized play kits vs only giving you 1.0 gear

4: FREE squad building app. 

5: Cards in the individual 2.0 packs (in wave 1 at least) will be in the conversion kits.

6: no more "autothruster expansion". anything available to one faction, another faction will get it too (apparently... source I think Team Cov.?)

 

THIS IS HUGE and going to be amazing. hang on for the ride, it's going to be a blast!

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1 minute ago, period3 said:

Yeah I agree.  I don't know or care if FFG is justified in asking that much.  I have a collection that probably cost $1k CAD, excluding epic.  Now to convert it I need to pay almost 40% of that cost again  (2x rebel, 2x empire, 1x new order, 1x resistance, 1x core).  I can't justify it.

It's MSRP though, I'll have to see what it costs when it hits my FLGS.

 

Maybe my math is wrong, but it is telling me that something is odd with your numbers. Considering that those conversion kits cover at the bare minimum two of everything and that they are selling for $40 each on mm ... it seems not to fit to your 40% number.  You need 5 of them apparently, but in the unlikely case that the Resistance and First Order Kits have the same price tag ... you would only reach almost Canadian dollars AND have enough conversion dials, cards, etc to convert a much bigger collection than just a 1000 Canadian dollar collecting. 

The only case this might be true is if you need additional conversion kits based on a few outliers and this can be solved easily by splitting kits and selling individual parts, which will be a thing on the secondhand market. 

Now those people with really large collection will look indeed into some quite heavy investments and a few ships like the B-Wing, X-Wing, A-Wing and maybe TIE-Fighter will be in high demand, but this means only that everything else will be rather cheap to grab off ebay. The guys with the BBBBZ ... might not be able to use 4 B-Wings in one list now anyway, because the point costs might be too high. If B-Wings got the fix they deserve they might be now a lot more expensive ships. 

 

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I'm just wondering, with the availability of third party base plates/dials and the required nature of the new app, just how necessary these upgrade kits will be.

I have a fairly OT centric collection, so buying three upgrade kits for each of my factions to enable me to play with my whole collection is $300 USD. And I don't even play Scum. And I'll be getting a lot of stuff in the upgrade kits that I'll never use. It's actually significantly cheaper to survive an edition change in 40K, which is really saying something.

As a casual player who has no intention of ever attending a tournament, will I be able to get by with the new core set and some third party upgrades?

Edited by Chucknuckle

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2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Maybe my math is wrong, but it is telling me that something is odd with your numbers. Considering that those conversion kits cover at the bare minimum two of everything and that they are selling for $40 each on mm ... it seems not to fit to your 40% number.  You need 5 of them apparently, but in the unlikely case that the Resistance and First Order Kits have the same price tag ... you would only reach almost Canadian dollars AND have enough conversion dials, cards, etc to convert a much bigger collection than just a 1000 Canadian dollar collecting. 

The only case this might be true is if you need additional conversion kits based on a few outliers and this can be solved easily by splitting kits and selling individual parts, which will be a thing on the secondhand market. 

Now those people with really large collection will look indeed into some quite heavy investments and a few ships like the B-Wing, X-Wing, A-Wing and maybe TIE-Fighter will be in high demand, but this means only that everything else will be rather cheap to grab off ebay. The guys with the BBBBZ ... might not be able to use 4 B-Wings in one list now anyway, because the point costs might be too high. If B-Wings got the fix they deserve they might be now a lot more expensive ships. 

 

If it will really be as easy as you say to find split up conversion packs on the aftermarket, then yeah, I can probably get by with <40%.   I need to enumerate exactly what I have.  I'm ballparking based on a few ships (9 ties, 5 x-wings, 4 b-wings, 5 a-wings, 7 interceptors, 3 y-wings, 3 bombers, and I forget most of the rest.  Probably 2-3 of most others)  I do hope it will be easy to find split up conversions at reasonable prices, because i'm pretty excited about 2.0 other than the cost.

 

 

 

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Agreed, I'm really excited about 2.0, the game has needed it for a long time, but I'm balking at the $300 price tag to update all my ships. I'm not a 100/6 player and never have been, 150 point games have been our 'standard' for a long time and we regularly play at 200 points, and our Epic games can sometimes be 800 points or more. If I want to keep playing those games, I don't want to have a $300 entry fee standing in my way.

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9 TIE's would be a good example of not getting ALL of them converted in the first place. You get two converted from the core set, 4 in the imperial conversion kit AND you get another two TIE dials in the rebel conversion kit. You will most likely not able to fly 8 Academies that way, but at the other hand ... 8 Academies are the absolute limit for epic and most likely still pretty bad in standard (now 200 pt) games. 

4 of your X-Wings are covered with the Saw expansion + core set + 1 conversion kit as well. Do you need the 5th converted that badly to justify a second conversion kit? (edit: And if you do, I would be happily buy from you some of your spares of that second kit ^_^)

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Does anyone have any clue what these conversion kits are worth in australian dollars.  My collection now crosses scum, empire, first order, rebellion and resistance. So that's 5 kits minimum to get something from each faction at least playable. Seriously?  Knowing the way Australia appears to get screwed with pricing i can't see these being less than $80 each.  The AtSt is for legion is averaging about $90.  This is why I havent gone to legion.

Are current templates staying the same or are there new ones?

 A large number of kits were bought just to get access to fixes like the advanced tie in th imperial raider kit.

Now we dont need those epic kits to get the fixes.... we just need to spend another $400+ to make them "compatible".  And in many cases thats to get just one of each to a playable state because i only own or run one. Take the ghost for example.  One kit gets how many ghost dials but only 2 xwings.  Seriously? I think the op is right.

Oh wait....i "need" to buy a core set to get the new damage deck. I dont play competitely due to massive distance from any tournament scene so i won't be getting a complimentary one and neither will my gaming group. But the means another xwing and more tie fighters to go with the 8 or more i already have.

But 2.0 will balance/fix everything. For now. Until someone breaks the rules and we need an faq. Then we get resistance and first order. And another faq.

I do understand the desire to reset and get everything on a par from across the waves but you just priced me out of the game.  Separating the two imperial factions and the two alliance factions was a big hit.

I guess ill grab the remaing 1st edition stuff and call it quits there.

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One of the hot things about the balance of the game is that we don't need fixes anymore, because the points are now adjustable. The design is based around the idea to make ships interesting now and balance the costs simply afterwards in the app. 

So this is literally the end of the ace packs. The Saw’s Renegades Expansion Pack will be the last one and bring all already X-Wing 2.0 conversions for its ships. 

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44 minutes ago, AceWing said:

I know it looks like I was replying to you but it just happened that I was replying to another comment a couple pages earlier without quoting. I hope you're not offended at my comment. I wasn't trying to bash you.

Its cool, I wasn't offended or took it as a bash ?

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So what your saying is that we will be reliant utterly upon an app that has the latest points costing or we play the other less formal version?  No thanks. I bought a board game not a video game.

And it still doesn't change the massive cost to stayin the current game using the same models.

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1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

So what are the limits you are running into outside of competative play that cannot be solved by proxying? The only things I can come up with are dials and maybe ship tokens.

KAPOW!!  That's the magic problem.

This would not have affected me much at all if dials and ships remained the same.

I can't run squads of 8 ships (which I have) without the associated dials.  And to get enough dials I have to buy 2-3 times as many dice, cards, templates, stands, whatever, as I need.

So the first $50 is worth it.  The second and third purchases (PER FACTION!!) are complete skullduggery.

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This update in my opinion will rejuvenate the game (which I personally didn't think was ever dead) for many players that either dropped out or were ready to drop out.

The group I play in has had the conversation MANY times that we wish there wasn't just an FAQ every so often but that the core game would be updated and that dials, cards, etc were updated as well to reflect many of the improvements that have been made. Part of our discussion was that since this game simply has SO MUCH content, inevitably there would be a cost to FFG to make this happen and in turn players that wanted to opt-in on such a update (now known as version 2.0) would have to be willing to pay for the "new and improved" content. 

Personally I'm all in. While I don't like to spend money just to spend it, I have a huge passion for this game and it's community. I've seen far more pros than cons to justify the conversion to 2.0 (despite the cost).

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3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

KAPOW!!  That's the magic problem.

This would not have affected me much at all if dials and ships remained the same.

I can't run squads of 8 ships (which I have) without the associated dials.  And to get enough dials I have to buy 2-3 times as many dice, cards, templates, stands, whatever, as I need.

So the first $50 is worth it.  The second and third purchases (PER FACTION!!) are complete skullduggery.

dial apps?

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14 minutes ago, Phoenix4427 said:

So what your saying is that we will be reliant utterly upon an app that has the latest points costing or we play the other less formal version?  No thanks. I bought a board game not a video game.

And it still doesn't change the massive cost to stayin the current game using the same models.

Sure, if you take that in the worst possible way. Could instead say we’re not reliant on buying epic ships with $100 MSRP to make small ships relevant, don’t need ace packs and fix cards in unrelated ships (autothruster and Expertise expansions, woo), and if a fix errata comes out it can actually include point costs now without invalidating cards.

Also, it’s already been said that they’ll have printable point costs for people who don’t want to have an app.

If the cost is too much for you, that’s up to you individually and what you are willing to pay for a game. Having been billed for the Palp and TIE Advanced fix, the light scyk title, the 1x FAA per **** sheathapede and 1x integrated Astro per T-70 this pricing feels positively restrained in comparison given the amount of stuff that’s being converted. If it’s too much for you, then that’s your decision and you still have all your 1st edition stuff from the now more than 5 year old game which also is easily converted to the brand new Game if you ever decide it looks worth it.

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1 hour ago, Trghpu1994 said:

Would you have to get a new kit for each one or only the amount you normally use at a time?..like you own 10 xwings but only play a max of 5

Same assumption of I play tournament style.  I do not.  I can play 8 x-wings in epic.  And as long as I am "following my own path," 12 small ships used to be legal.  So I have that many of certain ship types.

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Yeah. You guys are a little bit special. Several thousand dollars into the game, not interested in tournament play, yet interested in having the correct cards and opposed to just using 3rd party solution as well. 
Though you guys can still play 1.0 just fine. Which would make your collection mostly completed as well I guess. Which is not necessary a bad thing either. 

True on both accounts.  But sticking with 1.0 effectively turns into "I QUIT!!"

That's my conundrum.  And my potential "reward."

1 hour ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Have you seen the gameplay video? It’s quite changed.

No.  Still processing all this. . .

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

dial apps?

Uh, maybe?  I'm not that tech saavy, and as Epic, I need to manipulate like 12+ dials. . .

47 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

THIS IS HUGE and going to be amazing. hang on for the ride, it's going to be a blast!

Maybe.  But I might just sit on a bench for a year or so and see whether this som-a-bich stays on the rails.

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8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Uh, maybe?  I'm not that tech saavy, and as Epic, I need to manipulate like 12+ dials. . .

Which works just fine in the free dial apps. You just add a ship and it's designation to each dial and can "turn" one at a time via the app. At least the android one I am using sometimes. 

Another option are third party dials, you don't need tournament legal ones anyway and the cogotwo ones seem splendid. I am sure they will update their offerings to 2.0 ... and they have universal ones with all moves on the dial as well iirc. 

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35 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

KAPOW!!  That's the magic problem.

This would not have affected me much at all if dials and ships remained the same.

I can't run squads of 8 ships (which I have) without the associated dials.  And to get enough dials I have to buy 2-3 times as many dice, cards, templates, stands, whatever, as I need.

So the first $50 is worth it.  The second and third purchases (PER FACTION!!) are complete skullduggery.

I got some label paper that I will sell you real cheap. 

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3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not to be that smelly guy in the basement kinda player, but I don't play in a FLGS.  If FFG isn't supporting thematic play at home, it doesn't help me much.  My FLGS has events on Monday nights.  I work late as a veterinarian.  I generally can't make it.  The irony is that I live in Chicago. . .you would think I would have lots of options.  None of them are close enough to be feasible.

I might have to sit it out for a couple of Waves and think it over, but thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

What I'm hoping is the new process allows them to specifically balance for epic separately than standard tournaments. They can have an epic option on the app where point cost are actually different than for standard play allowing them to better balance huge ships and everything really. The printed cost made them have to choose what to balance for and they clearly focused on standard. These changes make me more hopeful for casual play, the potential to be able to tweak cost yourself for thematic, epic, etc. Not happy they are getting more of my money, but happy they're giving me a good reason to throw more money at them. Time will tell I guess.

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