ISB Slicer - Question

[Favoritism Flight Games 628]

Wanted to break this out of the preview thread. So, with ISB Slicer, if you use Jam on an enemy ship that already took a focus/evade/TL action that round, you strip the token, immediately discard the jam...

Now, can you choose the same ship (which is not jammed because it stripped a token) and assign a jam to it? Is that what the timing here implies? If so that's some bonkers action economy. One action of mine for two of my opponents.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

that's how it reads. The ISB timing is post action, and action assigns token (im assuming) which then triggers token effect.

it's kinda crazy. Might legitimately lead to a trajectory simulator + genius errata where they CLEARLY worded them to work together but only later realized how dumb it was

but it is dependent on higher ps (or bid) to ensure they have a token to strip. If they don't, it's still a single jam

Edited April 30, 2018 by ficklegreendice

[pyoinator 286]

Looks like it. Jam token is removed as soon as jam token and another token are on the same ship, so "after you perform a jam action" you can definitely pick the same ship. 

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

I know everyone's excited for palp, but this'll probably be the sleeper hit

only real weakness is how fragile the reaper is. You're looking at a VI vermeil to maximize PS (so they have tokens to knock off before you jam em again), so 29 points base.

You'll take unmodified dice from whoever you jam, but you're still a B-wing

on the plus side, ps 8 ailerons

Edited April 30, 2018 by ficklegreendice

[Frimmel 2,190]

2 minutes ago, pyoinator said:

Looks like it. Jam token is removed as soon as jam token and another token are on the same ship, so "after you perform a jam action" you can definitely pick the same ship. 

I'd agree with that. I thought maybe the ISB Slicer would process before removing completing the initial jam but it is a "when" trigger for Jam Action. A ship is at range one of itself isn't it? 

[pyoinator 286]

This still works vs AO poe, Kylo, or anyone else that carries tokens over. 

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

Yup, you definitely can.  Seems nasty.

[Magnus Grendel 10,578]

Yes. A ship is at range 1 of itself, so if the target already has a token you can eat the token and then jam it again.

[Favoritism Flight Games 628]

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

I know everyone's excited for palp, but this'll probably be the sleeper hit

only real weakness is how fragile the reaper is. You're looking at a VI vermeil to maximize PS (so they have tokens to knock off before you jam em again), so 29 points base.

You'll take unmodified dice from whoever you jam, but you're still a B-wing 

LWF is amazing on a 1 Agility Ship. 2 green dice pretty much all the time.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

7 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

LWF is amazing on a 1 Agility Ship. 2 green dice pretty much all the time.

getting a bit expensive though, 31 points. Practically speaking, you're looking at 33 with kallus (because you can't focus your green dice, making them far less useful...if there ever were useful to begin with)

still, definitely worth a shot

ISBs are actually slightly, legitimately concerning for game balance

I mean, rau already necessitates some form of token-independent modification. Verneil is going to absolutely mandate it, if he becomes a thing

and between his ability + Kallus + ailerons, he already possess a build that carries enough action efficiency to not really care about using his action to Jam


only thing is I haven't seen the Jam action spoiled yet (maybe I missed it?). It could be range 1 only

 

only thing missing is a name for the build ?

I might seriously just default to "Lone Star" or "raspberry" Verneil

Edited April 30, 2018 by ficklegreendice

[SuperWookie 184]

This is going to be a big hit for Imps. Gotta love it.

[DarkArk 695]

This is a massive hard counter to those tech upgrades that let you hold onto actions. 26 points for one with ISB, courier, LWF. I think it will be a solid ship. Throw Krennic on for 31 if you feel like it.

Edited April 30, 2018 by DarkArk

[SabineKey 6,238]

4 minutes ago, Superstrength79 said:

This is going to be a big hit for Imps. Gotta love it.

With the right kind of tokens.

[matt.sucharski 1,055]

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

only thing missing is a name for the build ?

Reaper Madness?

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

ISB slicer is also not LImited...

[LagJanson 7,240]

Now... using ISB Slicer on a Gozanti with Broadcast Array and Frequency Jammer... you jam a target, and some poor sap at range 1 takes both a stress and a jam token...

It's not good, but maximum insult delivery....

[defkhan1 1,687]

So if you slap two of these bad boys on a Reaper and Jam a ship with two tokens, does it immediately lose both tokens AND get assigned a lingering Jam token?

[Biophysical 15,515]

15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

getting a bit expensive though, 31 points. Practically speaking, you're looking at 33 with kallus (because you can't focus your green dice, making them far less useful...if there ever were useful to begin with)

still, definitely worth a shot

ISBs are actually slightly, legitimately concerning for game balance

I mean, rau already necessitates some form of token-independent modification. Verneil is going to absolutely mandate it, if he becomes a thing

and between his ability + Kallus + ailerons, he already possess a build that carries enough action efficiency to not really care about using his action to Jam


only thing is I haven't seen the Jam action spoiled yet (maybe I missed it?). It could be range 1 only

 

only thing missing is a name for the build ?

I might seriously just default to "Lone Star" or "raspberry" Verneil

Dude doesn't really need Kallus, could get by.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Biophysical

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

2 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

So if you slap two of these bad boys on a Reaper and Jam a ship with two tokens, does it immediately lose both tokens AND get assigned a lingering Jam token?

Yup.

[LagJanson 7,240]

17 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

So if you slap two of these bad boys on a Reaper and Jam a ship with two tokens, does it immediately lose both tokens AND get assigned a lingering Jam token?

No, because... it has to be another ship at range 1 that is not jammed...

EDIT: Didn't mean to type "Another" but even without I've been proven wrong here. Move along!

Edited April 30, 2018 by LagJanson

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

Dude doesn't really need Kallus, could get by.

mods are love, mods are life

...I weep for Vermeil's opponents

[SuperWookie 184]

This was answered on the TIE Silencer thread, but if you Jam them and they only had one token to remove, then you can definitely use the second Jam from ISB Slicer to jam the same ship (since it's only jammed if it has a jam token).

[Biophysical 15,515]

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

mods are love, mods are life

...I weep for Vermeil's opponents

Honestly, if that's the sort of ship that's making others weep, the game is in a pretty good place.  

A lot of ships, though, are still pretty chill with it.  The Super Ghost doesn't care a lot, neither does Rey or any other expertise ship.  

[SabineKey 6,238]

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

No, because... it has to be another ship at range 1 that is not jammed...

ISB Slicer doesn’t actually say another.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Honestly, if that's the sort of ship that's making others weep, the game is in a pretty good place.  

A lot of ships, though, are still pretty chill with it.  The Super Ghost doesn't care a lot, neither does Rey or any other expertise ship.  

well, that's exactly why you need kallus

big stonking 60+ points ships are basically his forte

I have to contest that jam really does matter against Rey though. She's a LOT tankier with a defensive focus