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Darth evil

Armor, or the soon to be lack there of

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So after a few games and reading/watching battlereports i've come to the conclusion that Armored units will fade away in this game. There are too many things that can hurt armor(Vader,Luke,AT-RT cannon,both Stormtrooper heavy guns,T-47, Ion gun, AT-ST) even E-11's if you roll crits. I took down a T-47 with a Stormtrooper Squad rolling 4 crits, and i lost my own AT-ST to a T-47 and an Ion trooper with some help from an AT-RT. In all fairness i thought Veers would have helped the AT-ST but none of his command cards actually help it, it can't recover from Ion, a dodge won't really help much and Maximum firepower only managed 2 hits on an AT-RT and i had to use it turn 1 or never use it. my DLT-19's in every squad did the armor hunting and did it well. I believe once we can fill every unit choice with something thats infantry that will be the day armor dies, sad really because i love the vehicles in Star Wars.

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I think you’re thinking about it backwards. You’re going off the assumption that Armor should be impenetrable except against very specialized units. Rather, Armor is generally pretty possible to work around, but it’s very strong against units that don’t have that capability. 

This is a good thing. It means that strategic planning is rewarded; if you can get your vehicle into a fight against a bunch of basic troopers, you’ll steamroll them. Likewise, if you let your vehicle get focused by Impact units, you’ll lose it quickly. This also incentivizes a good balance in list building. You don’t want too many vehicles in case you come up against an Impact-heavy army, but you also don’t want to spend too many points on Impact, a quality that is useless against trooper units. And, most important, it avoids the rock-paper-scissors meta. If there weren’t ways to conveniently work around Armor in list building, you would end up with Impact heavy lists hard countering vehicle lists, which hard counter trooper heavy lists, which hard counter Impact heavy lists; so win or loss would more or less be determined by matchup. 

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Armour doesn't work like in say 40k: it isn't there to have your vehicle drive like a Churchill down a field, being shot at to cover infantry (until we get red die defense vehicles?). They are here to annihilate one unit at a time.

You do not want your armoured units to be shot at from 4 or 5 directions because if the opponent can make that many shots, he's bound to get crits.

Armour will mitigate the amount of damage you will take, and hitpoints will soak the damage that goes through. It doesn't make you impervious to anything. Minimise the number of people that shoot at you and your vehicles will last a lot longer, sometimes because the opponent knows he won't be able to kill it and thus shoot at other things, sometimes because he will shoot ineffectively.

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Even though I don't fully agree with Darth Evil here, he is making a good point overall. If your opponent has lots of Anti-Armor weapons, it's good to not have any Armor, so your opponent wasted lots of points. I think we will see lists without any Armor soon.

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I’ve heard this argument before and I still don’t get it. Unless everything your opponent uses has LoS to your armored unit and impact your vehicle should be able to take a few hits and be fine. I played a game where my opponent actively tried to eliminate my AT-ST because it was eliminating his troopers and even with concentrated fire my walker kept on walking. I know he didn’t have the same impact as the empire but still between Luke and the T-47 there was plenty of impact.

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My AT-ST(s) (yay Veers) have been doing quite well.  Only lost one thus far.  The biggest problem is it’s so expensive.

 

AT-RTs die pretty quick when targeted by heavy inpact weapons, but are sturdy enough to endure quite a bit of non-impact shooting.  They are also 1/3 the points of the ST.

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I think the fleet and snow troopers will change this quite a bit. They are much more aggressively anti infantry than the regular rebel and storm troopers so you can pair them with your heavies. If your opponent focuses on your armor with is infantry your infantry is free to go to town on them. Most of the armored vehicles are not particularly efficient at killing infantry in cover with the exception of the flamethrower ATRT and the ATST Grenade launcher.  

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Fleet troopers will actually be pretty decent anti-armour with their twin white dice: 10 white + heavy weapon is a good chance of at least one crit, not counting rerolls by their "free" aim token.

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Evasive Maneuvers is amazing on an ATST. Full stop.

Get Dodge from EM, take Dodge action. Get attacked by a weapon with Impact or natty crits. Spend two Dodge tokens to erase both crits, Armor the regulars. Then roll with defensive surge. Maybe one damage?

Great on Speederbikes too. Cover 1 plus 1-2 Dodge plus defensive Surge. Not too shabby.

I also disagree with the OP's stance on Armor viability.

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39 minutes ago, Mep said:

@Ailowynn Dodge can be used before Impact as can cover. It is useless against natural crits or just too many hits to change them all with impact, however a range 4 DL into an airspeeder with a dodge is never going to hit.

Just pinging this to bring up the last part of the "Evasive Manoeuvres" command card.

swl10_evasive-maneuvers.png

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4 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Which brings the question...does this apply then to all vehicles on the list, or just the two Veers gives orders with the card to?

All vehicles 

 

if it was just the ordered ones, it would say so.

 

it could easily say “and” instead of “. Friendly vehicle units “

Edited by Drasnighta

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The problem with Evasive Maneuvers is that it only works against Nat crits, the interaction with Impact is goofy.  Let's say Vader just scores 4 normal hits.  Well having a dodge token even with Evasive literally does nothing.  Makes it a very odd card.  Still works if they score nat crits or get a number of normal hits equal to or below their impact, just very odd.

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21 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The problem with Evasive Maneuvers is that it only works against Nat crits, the interaction with Impact is goofy.  Let's say Vader just scores 4 normal hits.  Well having a dodge token even with Evasive literally does nothing.  Makes it a very odd card.  Still works if they score nat crits or get a number of normal hits equal to or below their impact, just very odd.

Well, that's a good roll, isn't it? Saying a card isn't super effective against a good roll isn't really a good critique of that card. I can come up with many other scenarios in which EM is actually quite good.

If that same vehicle had a dodge token from EM and another dodge token from its own activation, it would be able to remove one potential Impact eligible hit that it wouldn't have before, too. 

In your scenario, the vehicle in question just wouldn't spend the dodge token in the first place, rather saving it for a more opportune moment and an attack that makes more sense for it to be spent on.

This doesn't seem to be a "goofy interaction with Impact" it's just Impact being good against Armor, which is the whole point.

Edited by Tvayumat

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