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Jadotch

What is X-Wing to you?

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It is a pretty easy question, but I think it boils down to a lot of the infighting in the board. Are you a competitive player or casual? Do you like theory crafting and list building? What should the importance of the dice and chance be? How important is the fluff?

And most importantly ...

What is the definition of a "balanced" game to you? (Faction and ships? List building and Flying? etc ... etc ...)

Edited by Jadotch

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A game. Escapism.

5 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

What is the definition of a "balanced" game to you? (Faction and ships? List building and Flying? etc ... etc ...)

Balance to me in a list building game is where the points actually get you near equal value for the points. Some counters are good, but hard counters are bad. One shouldn't be entirely beaten before the game begins unless they've done something silly... (Hawks... though that said, this is another example of the point cost is not correct for the ship)

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Competitive player or casual - I'm stuck in-between. I take the game seriously but unfortunately don't have enough time to dedicate to it to become a "good" player.

I like list building and looking for ways to be competitive and fun without falling back on a meta list. Though meta lists are fun and almost a requirement for tournaments.

Definition of a balanced game: I think each faction should have roughly the same access to the same style ship. I should be able to build a list with any faction that can accomplish more or less the same thing. Maybe that's an oversimplification.

I hope this kind of answered what you were looking for.

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I consider myself a “high functioning casual player”. I would say I’m pretty decent compared to most casuals, but I stand little chance against the hardened dedicated tournament player. Just don’t have the time to commit to it, and I’m ok with that. Let’s me do other fun things like epic or HotAC.

I enjoy theorycrafting and trying it out. I enjoy the actual games most of all though - flying little ships and trying to do the best I can with them for that environment.

Balance? I don’t know what balance is because I’ve never seen it - I came to this game in the heyday of Dengaroo and triple deadeye scouts. I just play ships I enjoy flying and then try to figure out how to mitigate whatever the next iteration of brokenness is. 

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Casual player in terms of list building. I enjoy quirky lists and combos and like to cycle through my collection. Usually my lists will be themed too  

 

However, I do my best to win when I’m playing. Win or lose, I always enjoy playing the game, even if I get battered by a hard meta list. Just encourages me to improve. 

 

I typically have 2 lists with me on game nights - I avoid mirror matches where possible as I prefer the sight of opposing factions flying against each other. 

 

Balanced game? I never critically ask if a game is balanced to be honest. Just whether or not I enjoy playing it  

 

I love playing x wing. Just wish I had the time to do more of it! :) 

Edited by gasgraham

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I have more fun losing at X-Wing than winning at most other games. Which is fortunate, considering what my W/L rate would look like if I tracked it.

To me, this is a fast and fun tabletop game that makes me think while I'm playing it, sparks creativity in list-building, and has a relatively low cost of entry.

Granted, that cost has kept growing over time. But it's a minis game where I never have to build and paint anything, yet I still get to play with great minis (that probably look better than I could do with them anyway).

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52 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

 Are you a competitive player or casual?

Do you like theory crafting and list building?

What should the importance of the dice and chance be?

How important is the fluff?

What is the definition of a "balanced" game to you? (Faction and ships? List building and Flying? etc ... etc ...)

A.  100% casual.  As @LagJanson said, this game is about Escapism, and nothing more.  OTOH, for it to be worthwhile escapism, it needs to be a decent (not perfect, mind you) game.

B.  Yes.  Possibly a holdover from my M:TG days where assembling a deck was also my favorite part of the game.  Thus, the more fiddley bits and options, the better.  I guess I actually prefer the game as it is now, where assembling the perfect ship via upgrades is important; not just dropping 8 naked TIEs and flying.

C.  Very.  If you can just "do the math" the game gets old fast, like D&D where you could just math out the likelihood who could kill a monster.  Also, then, leveraging chance becomes a feature of the game.

D.  Fluff is huge.  I play this game because it is Star Wars.  If FFG lost the license and created the exact same game without the IP, I probably would not play any more.  Thus, I want to see pilots and ships in the game even if they "overlap design space" or "don't add a new mechanic."

E.  A balanced game should be about the factions.  Again, like M:TG, all the colors have a "job" to do, and if you want healing Red is not your color.  This is why I think the game would be better off with 2 more factions, because it would be easier to add diversity while maintaining balance.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Fun. A place to interact with friend and stranger alike around something we have in common. The exhilaration of victory. The contemplation after defeat. The setting of Star Wars. These are what I value most in X-Wing.

I would classify myself as a casual competitive player. I fly what I want, whether it falls under jank or high meta. Some hipsterish tendencies tends to steer me away from going with a current dominant list, but some bring too much I like to the table (example being Parattanni and variants back in the day, as it contained two ships I love flying.)

Theory crafting and list building are fun parts of the game, but I also ascribe to the "nothing new under the sun" notion. Whatever I come up with, someone else has come up with as well. There is always a first and I'll still tinker with different lists, but if I see something I like (whether on the table or online), I'm gonna give it a go.

Dice and chance are obstacles to be overcome. The Lady is a fickle mistress and while I have benefitted from her graces, I know she's just fattening me up for the next big fall. The less I rely on her, the better. But that's also the point. How you deal with dice and chance are a core part of the game. 

Fluff has its importance, but like the classic example goes "gameplay>fluff". If we went by fluff alone, characters like Vader and Luke should be virtually unbeatable, and that doesn't make a good game. That said, it is more pleasing when fluff is integrated into gameplay (like characters with connections in fluff work well together in game). I also think that fluff has some level of interpretation in it, therefore is unreliable as a foundation. 

Balance comes from everything having at least a shot at winning. I agree with @LagJanson's comment about the same amount of points having roughly the same value. I do not believe we will ever have true balance, but I don't need perfection. The game has an ebb and flow. Some seasons it will be better. Some it will be worse. That's life.

Edit: an extra thought on balance, while I believe similar point values should provide similar value, thought must go into the actual build. If you load up Fel with Saturation Salvo, Title, Vectored Thrusters, and Advanced SLAM, you should not have the same chances as a more thoughtful constructed Jake or even PS8 Poe with a single 1 point upgrade. That Fel example is extreme, but I hope it gets the point across that somethings don’t work together and that’s not a bad thing. 

Edited by SabineKey

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5 hours ago, SabineKey said:

pleasing when fluff is integrated into gameplay (like characters with connections in fluff work well together in game).

I think the game is missing a lot of this.  When Lando is on the table, you should almost expect Nien Numb crew.  The game works hard at making everything "generically usable" and I think that is a mistake both in terms of fluffiness, but also in terms of gameplay balance.

Pilot abilities that specifically targeted other pilots could make for obvious combos that can be playtested as a unit (helping with balance), add to fluff, and even open design space for creating "buddy-based" lists.

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11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I think the game is missing a lot of this.  When Lando is on the table, you should almost expect Nien Numb crew.  The game works hard at making everything "generically usable" and I think that is a mistake both in terms of fluffiness, but also in terms of gameplay balance.

Pilot abilities that specifically targeted other pilots could make for obvious combos that can be playtested as a unit (helping with balance), add to fluff, and even open design space for creating "buddy-based" lists.

I actually disagree. I thing that trying to make things more generally (rather than generically) usable is a better path than trying to build things with specific combos with other cards for fluff reasons.

Let's take my favorite example of fluff synergies which is Kyle and Jan (where either one is the pilot and the other is a crew). While they work well together, both can be put into a list without the other and still preform fine. If we get so bogged down in certain characters have to work well with certain others, I think things become more generic and things aren't allowed to do new things. Take Han crew. He has a nice little ability to use TLs as a focus token for attacks. If he were forced to synergize with Chewie crew, it would likely be another damage mitigation crew rather than filling a new role for the larger game. And even if he did synergize with Chewie, what about his connection to Luke, Leia, or Lando? (lots of "L" names in his life.) We start getting into a mess because in trying to promote one connection, we possibly neglect others.

Like I said above, fluff is open to interpretation, therefore is a unreliable as a foundation. With a game like this, you have to first make a game that works, then fit the fluff in. It's fun when things click perfectly to accomplish both, but not essential in my mind.

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I'm with SabineKey

Gameplay >>>>>> fluff, because we're playing a game and not the stories it's based on

Synergy should come as a happy "accident" as a result of complimentary abilities

For example, having r2d2 be extra effective with Luke is just bad, lazy design

Having Luke be naturally more defensive ("the force is strong with this one...") and therefore work better with r2d2's Regen than most would, now THAT'S proper design 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 hours ago, Jadotch said:

What is the definition of a "balanced" game to you? (Faction and ships? List building and Flying? etc ... etc ...)

When all factions, and a good portion of pilots and upgrades, are viable in competitive play. And to clarify, by "good portion" I mean at least 50%. 

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20 hours ago, Jadotch said:


What is the definition of a "balanced" game to you?

Four people in the entire galaxy will be allowed to play X-Wing. 2 of them will play are Rrbels, and 2 of them will play Empire. Always two there are; no more, no less. A master and an apprentice. This will bring balance. 

Edited by Pooleman

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2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Gameplay >>>>>> fluff, because we're playing a game and not the stories it's based on

I play this game precisely because of the story it is based on.  I definitely would not have spent several $K on BSG, Star Trek, Genero-Space Wars, or Ducky Dodgers in the 21st and 1/2 Century.

So I place high value on fluff, personally.  I want to mimic the stories it is based on.  I can't do that if it makes no sense to ever put R2 on Luke, Vader with his wingmen, or General Merrick with Blue Squadron pilots.

Yeah, the game can't suck, and for me it doesn't because I am more forgiving of its foibles.  I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, or that I don't want to see Squints fare better.

But this game should still play like it's Star Wars.  Done right, that shouldn't matter to players who don't care, but it means everything to players who do. 

Possibly, the best example of this currently in the game is the Ezra/Maul link.

3 hours ago, Djaskim609 said:

 (I'm digging debris gambit). 

I had a hoot flying Fel with this one night.  Worked like a dream.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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4 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

Four people in the entire galaxy will be allowed to play X-Wing. 2 of them will play are els, and 2 of them will play Empire. Always two there are; no more, no less. A master and an apprentice. This will bring balance. 

Balance is a lie; there are only OP Combos.

Thru OP Combos I gain Strength.

Thru Strength I gain Power.

Thru Power I gain Victory.

Thru Victory I gain Swag.

The DICE shall set me free!!

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A game where I can escape from work and not be stressed. Fly around plastic spaceships and say pew pew. 

 

To to be honest, I’m more sick of the negativity on podcasts than the actual game itself. Sure, Ghost/Fenn, Nym/Miranda, and the like are aweful to play against, but they aren’t ever in the local meta. The game is healthy at the FLGS across the country because when it comes down to it, it’s a game with plastic spaceships and people just want to have fun. 

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