Quickdraw with accuracy corrector needs a nerf

[theBitterFig 11,598]

14 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

But QD with AC attacking from both arcs yields 4 hits... and there is no standard deviation whatsoever. I do appreciate your entire comment though. Good analysis of FCS and AC. Maybe I need to spend more time playing the game. I just feel that AC on a ship that has 2 die is nuts on a game that runs on probability.

Thing is, you don't run FCS for the times when you can get 2.25 hits on three dice.  You run it so that when you get to range 1 with a focus and TL, for a 3.75 hit average, and a less than 3% chance of fewer than 3 hits, and a shield token so you can do it again (for an average of 7 hits across both attacks, and a 98.7% chance of at least 5).  Attacking from both arcs happens sometimes, but not *that* often.  It's a lot easier to line up a R1 front shot.  Yes, it's possible to blank out.  But at some point, you've got to play the odds.

I love-love-love AccC on a generic.  Blows away FCS by far on a Zeta, probably an Omega.  But Quickdraw has the potential to focus fire a single target with double 4-dice attacks in a turn, and that degree of spike, concentrated damage really just works out better.  Even if the spread damage potential is fairly high, the fast single-target damage of QD is what wins games.

Don't get me wrong on AccC.  I think it's really good on 2 dice ships, and any 2-dice ship with a System slot needs to be pretty careful.  Someone had a custom designed ship the other week with double-front-attacks and 2 reds and a system, and it looked broken as **** to me, at least at the lowish point cost  But that was double-front, so it concentrates damage, rather than spreading it out.

[bydand 137]

11 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Not “too” conditional just conditional. AC is not. It feels strange for ffg to make a card that breaks the foundation of rolling dice. 

I am going to try out Lowhhrick though, just bc we had this dialogue. Didn’t know he was used that often. He doesn’t seem great to me on paper, but I’ll decide after I actually use him in practice.

This situation in general is one of those times that we can tell you why or why not something is a good idea, but it won't really sink in until you've really tried it yourself. 

 

I understand why AccC sounds great, but in practice, on QD, it's quite the opposite.

 

Spend a few games flying against competitive, tanky lists. Honestly, experience in this case is going to be the best teacher. 

[Stefan 732]

15 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Granted, I’m new to the game,

 

17 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

I’m still relatively new to this game but I feel like this combo is broken.

Suggestion: if you consider yourself new and inexperienced, frame the question as "I have trouble beating [Combo], can you tell me how to better play against it" rather than crying that it's broken. There's way too much of that in the forums as is.

[nitrobenz 1,369]

17 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Evade tokens are rare. Granted, I’m new to the game, but I don’t have a single ship in my collection that even has the evade action on its bar.

I'm guessing you're primarily a rebel player 

Fickle's suggestion for C-3PO Norra/Miranda is a good one if you want to counter ACC. Along with Lowie, who becomes more valuable when flown in formation with a higher threat wingmate. If your ships are close together that will also deny QD the front+back combo attack.

Rey + Lowie is another upper meta list that will make ACC almost moot no matter how many times it's used. Rey with Finn is fairly reliable offense and defense, then add the occasional evade from Low as needed, with focus for defense, and expertise for offense. If they attack Low instead then he gets to keep up reinforce.

[JediConsular4hire 4]

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

 

Suggestion: if you consider yourself new and inexperienced, frame the question as "I have trouble beating [Combo], can you tell me how to better play against it" rather than crying that it's broken. There's way too much of that in the forums as is.

Well, a declaration of something being broken typically yields ALOT more responses (some of them very helpful) than just asking for charitable suggestions... This is something I do have experience with. (Did I mention I play strategy games ?)

[Stefan 732]

4 minutes ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Well, a declaration of something being broken typically yields ALOT more responses (some of them very helpful) than just asking for charitable suggestions... This is something I do have experience with. (Did I mention I play strategy games ?)

Maybe, but it's toxic for the community as a whole. And 90% of the statements you get will be unhelpful to your problem.

[JediConsular4hire 4]

3 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

I'm guessing you're primarily a rebel player

Correct. I’m torn on which set to get next. I really want to fly the YT-2400 with Dash, but the heroes of the resistance set looks like a lot of good stuff. Rey and Finn together is 50 points, how much better is that versus Dash with outrider/HLC plus a 2 point upgrade?

[JediConsular4hire 4]

3 minutes ago, Stefan said:

Maybe, but it's toxic for the community as a whole. And 90% of the statements you get will be unhelpful to your problem.

I truly think that it is broken. Based on a carefully thought-out analysis of mathematics over time and the consideration of other options available that rely on chance (at least in some quantity). 

I want people to prove me wrong. I want to hear the dialogue about why it’s not so great. I stick by the content of my original post in order to achieve that. I think it did, and now I have a lot to think about thanks to you guys. 

I wouldn’t call that toxic. Just sincere.

[theBitterFig 11,598]

I had a friend flying 3x Resistance Bombers with Accuracy Corrector and Crossfire Formation (no bombs) for a hard-to-kill list on 36 HP with consistent attack dice at a small tournament about a month back.  He went 3-1, since the list just takes a long time to kill, and the consistent 2-dice hits add up.  The one game he lost?  To Lowhhrick with C-3PO, who was literally impossible to damage (Reinforce + C-3PO = 2 evades guaranteed).  That's the issue with Accuracy Corrector: it provides a solid, consistent floor to the dice.  However, it has a low top end, and can easily get hard-countered.  That's why I wouldn't consider it broken or in need of a nerf.  It's easy to counter, and the most extreme case from an AccC QD isn't that bad.  Difficult to set up cleave attacks, even guaranteed 2-hit cleaves, are good but not nerf-worthy.

Edited April 24, 2018 by theBitterFig

[nitrobenz 1,369]

1 hour ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Correct. I’m torn on which set to get next. I really want to fly the YT-2400 with Dash, but the heroes of the resistance set looks like a lot of good stuff. Rey and Finn together is 50 points, how much better is that versus Dash with outrider/HLC plus a 2 point upgrade?

The irony of that decision is that the best 2-point upgrade for dash (in my opinion of course) is Rey crew!  Though there is a solid argument for Lone Wolf as well, which comes with the Outrider.

That bit of humor aside I can't recommend Heroes enough! It is one of the most self contained expansions available with all the included upgrades being effective with a ship in the box and both ships being reasonably effective with only those upgrades available (this point is less valuable if you don't mind proxy upgrades). Bonus points for being thematic and coming from the current generation of Star Wars content 

From a long term collection (or using proxy upgrades) and overall comparison standpoint Super Dash and Super Rey are fairly comparable in terms of squad point costs (<5pt difference in their respective "best" builds with both hovering around 60) and effectiveness per squad points spent. But! They are almost opposite play styles with Dash being an ultra Kite (turret that runs away and makes you come to them) and Rey being a mega Jouster (head on approach) who happens to have a reasonable turret as backup. Choose your weapon and prosper 

Edited April 24, 2018 by nitrobenz

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

2 hours ago, JediConsular4hire said:

Correct. I’m torn on which set to get next. I really want to fly the YT-2400 with Dash, but the heroes of the resistance set looks like a lot of good stuff. Rey and Finn together is 50 points, how much better is that versus Dash with outrider/HLC plus a 2 point upgrade?

completely different ships, there is no better. their playstyles are different and require different wingmen

Dash likes to fart around wherever he pleases, staying out of range 1 and using heavy laser cannon outrider. Typical pairs well with Poe Dameron (r2d2, thrusters, optics) and making your opponents hate you

Rey is much more directly confrontational, as fighting things in her arc gives her a superpowered statline via her ability + Finn. She's also probably more flexible overall than dash, as Kanan (crew) lets you still fart through debris without issue, flip around on a whim (with the resistance Falcon title), and still punch people at range 1 when you feel like it.

She pairs well with lowhrick if you want to try him out there. Unlike Dash, she doesn't mind being tethered to a wingman but she also doesn't really NEED to be after the initial engagement

 

Both these ships couldn't give less of a flying **** about AC quickdraw, btw. Even without guaranteed defenses, they roll enough defense dice to largely not care and definitely spit out far too many red dice for two HITs to trade effectively against

when your opponents inevitably run in here complaining about them, know that their complaints will be far more legitimate

Edited April 24, 2018 by ficklegreendice

[wurms 5,313]

After I made this squad I was curious how it would perform, so I gave it a go tonight:

"Quickdraw" (29)
Outmaneuver (3)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Advanced Optics (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Linked Battery (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Linked Battery (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Total: 99

I won but accuracy corrector made it SOOO much more difficult. Came down to Quickdraw vs Duchess 1v1 and that is when you REALLY miss FCS. Took many many rounds of firing on duchess when it should have been 1 or 2 at most. I had range 1 shot and rolled blank blank eye hit. Ugh. Acc to two hits. Duchess evades 1. Again have range 2 and roll two hits and blank. Duchess evades both. Ugh.

Never again with Quickdraw. The only benefit was a couple hit eye blank rolls I was able to save my focus, even though I would have gladly spent it to get 3 hits.

Outmaneuver helped, cause I could just 3 straight over fools and still plink them for damage. Although, a red sloop with pattern analyzer and fcs woulda been just as useful.