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AintNoPoser

Dropping the Ball (Opinion)

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4 hours ago, TobiWan said:

With this I totally disagree. At the moment FFG shows up every month 1 or 2 new units. With Han and commandos and one unit per month we got new minis till September. In this scenario we have a continuous growing number of different units and play styles. You have the time to paint them all and build nice terrain and tables. The unit spam like in 40k with every new codex is bulls**t , cause every second player will have more minis than time to paint them all and the same army vary from op to garbage due to the codex releases.

Which would be great if the game wasn’t released with a single entry for only some of the unit categories?  Be a FFG fan, that’s great, I enjoy their games as well, but don’t don’t defend blatant mismanagement of product lines.  Well go ahead I guess, not here to change your mind, simply express my opinion.  

All I’m saying is, I’d be knee deep in Armada still had it been a more well rounded experience on release.

People I my area are already getting burnt on what there is.  

To reiterate, there is nothing wrong with an opposing view and also nothing wrong about expressing it.

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17 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Just don't preorder, Usually I can get stuff faster by not pre-ordering.  Just wait til it is released then buy it.

self-control and patience is hard

This isn't directed at you specifically but just the whole thread in general

You've managed to entirely miss my point. Self-control has nothing to do with it. Frustration in seeing an awesome game slip through the cracks when looking at games like 40K release new shiny stuff constantly is my issue. 

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I do feel that the release schedule is abit slow especially for a brand new game. I would have liked to see at least one unit of each type for both factions before the end of the summer. At this rate we might not see that before the end of the year.

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58 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

You've managed to entirely miss my point. Self-control has nothing to do with it. Frustration in seeing an awesome game slip through the cracks when looking at games like 40K release new shiny stuff constantly is my issue. 

that's going to continue.  40k has a history of decades and a buildup of mechanism as well as videogame tie-ins and interactive website, magazines, comicbooks etc.  FFG has a tabletop game that they just started and has much less manpower or history behind it and a fractured support (i know star wars has all of these things behind it but the game of legion is literally a month old)

40k used to and still for some factions goes years without releasing new product to support certain lines.

Edited by buckero0

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10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

imo i think ffg has too many games they are trying to support.

Friend of mine went to GAMA this year and said that every major game company there said the same thing, that they had oversaturated the market by releasing too many games in the past few years and were all planning on cutting their releases to 20-25% of what they have been.

I think you can see this with FFG as well, how many "huge" games have they released in the last couple of years compared to what they have announced for this year?

Not saying they have dropped the ball with Legion, although I'm a little disappointed to see that today is April 24th and the Recruitment kit still hasn't been released, just that some focus on production and consolidating the games they have released may be in order.

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54 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

that's going to continue.  40k has a history of decades and a buildup of mechanism as well as videogame tie-ins and interactive website, magazines, comicbooks etc.  FFG has a tabletop game that they just started and has much less manpower or history behind it and a fractured support (i know star wars has all of these things behind it but the game of legion is literally a month old)

40k used to and still for some factions goes years without releasing new product to support certain lines.

Big difference here is GW releases factions, they don’t come out with one HQ, troop and heavy and tell people to deal with a slow trickle to actually flesh out their experience.  When you sit someone down to demo Legion and they like it a lot and ask “what else is there, when can I get an AT-AT?” and you have to say “well actually this is kind of it for now” it really does do damage to the image of the game.  

Even worse is when someone buys in and gets sick of the same iterations of Stormtrooper vs. Rebel troopers, Luke vs. Vader and decides to cash out.

It is an issue that FFG should more interested in handling yet they seem totally fine losing people to the release system.

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I know they basically launched it via Adepticon, but it might have been better to launch of Star Wars Day if it would have allowed more of the initial expansions to be available.  The lack of variety currently isn't doing the game any favors.

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3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I’m an ****.

Im of the opinion that people who jump in then cash out just as quickly... weren’t going to stick around anyway... so I’m glad they found that out quickly and I can move on in patience without them and any associated grumbling... 

Except that is actively bad for the health of a game.  Gamers talk to gamers, the more bad first impressions there are the less likely people will be to get dragged in and you see the slow death of local communities.

I know because I have watched it happen twice with FFG product to date. 

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1 minute ago, Darkfine said:

Except that is actively bad for the health of a game.  Gamers talk to gamers, the more bad first impressions there are the less likely people will be to get dragged in and you see the slow death of local communities.

I know because I have watched it happen twice with FFG product to date. 

Not always.

As a TO, I’d rather have 2 true believers that really want to be there than a handful who just don’t care and would rather be doing something else.

I can cater to those who want to be there.

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I mean, I get not being too concerned about the low attention span crowd, but there's a difference between lack of commitment and getting bored with what amounts to a single matchup with only slight variance.  

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Sisters of Battle went what a full decade before they got anything new? And what they got was basically a "refurbished codex" so you didnt need 40pgs of faq/eratta to play them (then 8th of course took that out of the equation).

But i agree that the slow-trickle is a problem. Biggest reason we actively avoid mirror matches right now is there is NO list variation so they are played out pretty much as "Who's dice flops first?" since neither will have a positional advantage via their gear...both players have or dont have it.
The only notable variation right now is do you take the ATST/Speeder or not?

Imo, thats what killed RWM in my area. We had about 6 people that were active, but because FFG basically ignored it for so dang long people got pissed that they couldnt do anything other than core-list battles (as in, no new upgrades or units to play with just teh same crap in the core spammed) so they stopped playing. I bought 2 boxes of crossbowmen and never got a game with them because everyone was just done at that point, waiting for more to be released - then Legion announced....and we facepalmed

This also happens in 40k though not as noticable since their armies are huge. Several players took a 1-2year hiatus from it because their army hasnt been updated in years and years, and they were just bored of it.

Edited by Vineheart01

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5 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

I mean, I get not being too concerned about the low attention span crowd, but there's a difference between lack of commitment and getting bored with what amounts to a single matchup with only slight variance.  

Again, here’s where my elitist assholery shines through:

If you’re not patient enough to wait for releases you know are coming, what makes you think it’s a good idea on the first place to pick up a hobby game with game tunes of 2 hours at a time in the first place?

or in another FFG instance, a game that REQUIRES patience as a plan unfolds before you? (Armada)

 

... it just seems counterproductive... filter your expectations in the first place...

 

itd be different if what was promised as releases suddenly changed and WERENT coming after all - but when all you need is patience? Stick it out because you’ll get more in your life from said patience than anything else... ?

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9 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Sisters of Battle went what a full decade before they got anything new? And what they got was basically a "refurbished codex" so you didnt need 40pgs of faq/eratta to play them (then 8th of course took that out of the equation).

But i agree that the slow-trickle is a problem. Biggest reason we actively avoid mirror matches right now is there is NO list variation so they are played out pretty much as "Who's dice flops first?" since neither will have a positional advantage via their gear...both players have or dont have it.
The only notable variation right now is do you take the ATST/Speeder or not?

Imo, thats what killed RWM in my area. We had about 6 people that were active, but because FFG basically ignored it for so dang long people got pissed that they couldnt do anything other than core-list battles (as in, no new upgrades or units to play with just teh same crap in the core spammed) so they stopped playing. I bought 2 boxes of crossbowmen and never got a game with them because everyone was just done at that point, waiting for more to be released - then Legion announced....and we facepalmed

Minus the facepalm, this is similar to what occurred in my area.  I have never played a game against the Elves army, much less the Uthuk army, due to lack of interest in Runewars Minis by the time those models (as such) were released.  Runewars is a good, solid game that is suffering from the current release schedule.

Take a look at the Upcoming page and see exactly how many Runewars releases are still pending...then look at the articles and see that six out of the seven were schedule for release in the 4th quarter of 2017...

Edited by NeonWolf

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As someone who works for a board game/tabletop game distributor I can tell you that there's a lot of legality surrounding what manufacturers, distributors and retailers can and can't tell you about upcoming products - being shipped, in development or otherwise. There are A LOT of legal agreements surrounding non-disclosure for any number of purposes. From avoiding letting competitors know what your business is doing, to staggering releasing information to build interest/hype, to uncertainty within the company itself if they are unaware of what they can actually achieve (so as not to make false promises), to even wanting to/not to spread disinformation. If a successful company with a large customer/fan/player-base is not telling its customer's something it's probably because they either legally can't or don't want to to maintain their integrity. That's the communication side of it.

As for their production and choice of release timing, I'm just as confused as the next guy.

Ideally I can enjoy what I have available to me until the next thing comes out, and then the next - as I slowly fuel my addiction for plastic crack and Star Wars - and not worry to much about the nature of how they release their product.

Where this has the most adverse effect is in the tournament/organized play scene. If Rebel stuff comes out before Imperial stuff or vice versa, it may slant play in one direction or the other. Or it may cause tournament and organized play organizers to adjust their schedules to accommodate the full wave's release. Which is not ideal.

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Well, apparently this is the way they've chosen to do things. They announced and informed everyone they could.  I agree, that it would be great to release everything all at once, but as a business owner and operator for years now, I recognize that you can only do what you can only do and most small businesses go under because they overextend themselves or spend too much too fast and can't get a return on their investment quick enough.  FFG is a small business compared to the GW or Hasbro or several other large companies.  FFG looks like they're working out of their garage compared to some of the "big boys"

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3 hours ago, buckero0 said:

that's going to continue.  40k has a history of decades and a buildup of mechanism as well as videogame tie-ins and interactive website, magazines, comicbooks etc.  FFG has a tabletop game that they just started and has much less manpower or history behind it and a fractured support (i know star wars has all of these things behind it but the game of legion is literally a month old)

40k used to and still for some factions goes years without releasing new product to support certain lines.

I guess all those Star Wars movies, games tie-ins, novels, TV Show, etc etc etc don't count lol

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7 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

I guess all those Star Wars movies, games tie-ins, novels, TV Show, etc etc etc don't count lol

They don’t.

To put it bluntly.

None Of them were produced by FFG as precedence.

because the main difference is... GW produces the majority of that “in house” and thus have creative and marketing control.

They have their strict controls on content, both fluff and rules, and aren’t necessarily working off of anyone else’s... they don’t need to be careful about their canon for example because what they say ir do IS canon.

You can totally bring your own IP into disrepute if you want to... it’s your IP and creative direction after all.

its a completely different when you need to contend with someone else’s ideas.

Edited by Drasnighta

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2 hours ago, Darkfine said:

Except that is actively bad for the health of a game.  Gamers talk to gamers, the more bad first impressions there are the less likely people will be to get dragged in and you see the slow death of local communities.

I know because I have watched it happen twice with FFG product to date. 

I think I kind of have to side with Dras, here. It'd be one thing if we were going to be sitting on Wave 1 for six months. But we're not. Veers's release date is rapidly approaching, Snowtroopers aren't far behind, and soon Leia and the Fleet troopers will be here. If somebody gets burned out on this game within a month... They either played too much, or didn't have the attention span for a collection-building miniatures game to begin with.

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25 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

They don’t.

To put it bluntly.

None Of them were produced by FFG as precedence.

because the main difference is... GW produces the majority of that “in house” and thus have creative and marketing control.

They have their strict controls on content, both fluff and rules, and aren’t necessarily working off of anyone else’s... they don’t need to be careful about their canon for example because what they say ir do IS canon.

You can totally bring your own IP into disrepute if you want to... it’s your IP and creative direction after all.

its a completely different when you need to contend with someone else’s ideas.

Lol

 

Does GW produce every game ever made? Negative. Your logic does not hold. Nice try tho.

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4 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

Lol

 

Does GW produce every game ever made? Negative. Your logic does not hold. Nice try tho.

Wow, way to be dismissive.

 

But your dismissal is Not relevant..  we’re talking about the pedigree of a game system and it’s creative controls.

 

GW has a 30+ year history of doing whatever they **** well want with their own stuff. Not always good, not always bad, but for better or worse, whatever they wanted.

 

FFG is playing with someone else’s toys in ways that are self-admittedly new to them.

There are limits and holds and fractures - and although the story is of greater scope with stat wars, FFG cannot SHAPE it or define it, only get permission to access it.

Thats why it’s different.

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43 minutes ago, Squark said:

I think I kind of have to side with Dras, here. It'd be one thing if we were going to be sitting on Wave 1 for six months. But we're not. Veers's release date is rapidly approaching, Snowtroopers aren't far behind, and soon Leia and the Fleet troopers will be here. If somebody gets burned out on this game within a month... They either played too much, or didn't have the attention span for a collection-building miniatures game to begin with.

One model for one faction in the time that has past isn’t a great place to be trying to argue for FFG.  

Legion is the companies 5th outing into miniature gaming and we still have this silly trickle of not only models but info in general.  Also worth mentioning again my issue isn’t solely based on mode releases but the companies support for their product in general.

 

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