Fear of Winter and Shadows

[Gualdo 0]

 Some questions related to Fear of Winter and Shadows. 

In Marshalling place a card in shadow is considered "play"? I think Yes... so with Fear of Winter a player cannot play a cad in shadow and put it in play in other phases... do you confirm?

If my thinking is correct what to do qhen a player plays Fear of Winter and an opponent plays City of Lies?

Fear of Winter has a passive ability adn City of Lies a When Revealed... In my thinking in this situation the "City of Lies" player can only play one card in shadow for the When Revealed and this action prevents him to play or put in play cards for the whole round (untile Fear of Winter owner reveals another plot).

Am I right??? I love this plot!!!

thx for clarifications

[ktom 598]

Gualdo said:

In Marshalling place a card in shadow is considered "play"? I think Yes... so with Fear of Winter a player cannot play a cad in shadow and put it in play in other phases... do you confirm?

Yes. Playing a card from your hand into Shadows during Marshalling counts as playing a card from your hand. Nate confirmed this in another thread.

Gualdo said:

If my thinking is correct what to do qhen a player plays Fear of Winter and an opponent plays City of Lies?

Remember that City of Lies says you may put up to 2 cards into Shadows from your hand. Fear of Winter would limit that to 1, but you could always choose to put 0 into Shadows.

However, one could argue that while Marshalling a card into Shadows from your hand counts as playing a card, putting a card into Shaodws from your hand may not actually count as putting a card into play from your hand because, as we know, Shadows is not actually "in play." Fear of Winter doesn't stop you from putting more than 1 card from your hand directly into any other out-of-play area (like the discard pile). You may want to send the question to Nate to be sure. 

[Gualdo 0]

 I will do it, actually is not so clear :-)

I hope Fear has the power to limit shadow deck in this awy ;-)

[eloooooooi 0]

ktom said:

However, one could argue that while Marshalling a card into Shadows from your hand counts as playing a card, putting a card into Shaodws from your hand may not actually count as putting a card into play from your hand because, as we know, Shadows is not actually "in play." Fear of Winter doesn't stop you from putting more than 1 card from your hand directly into any other out-of-play area (like the discard pile). You may want to send the question to Nate to be sure. 

He will tell you that playing a card into shadows counts for the limit. We sent this question to him a couple of weeks ago and that was his answer.

[Gualdo 0]

 thx eloiiiiiii ;-)

[schrecklich 0]

eloooooooi said:

ktom said:

 

However, one could argue that while Marshalling a card into Shadows from your hand counts as playing a card, putting a card into Shaodws from your hand may not actually count as putting a card into play from your hand because, as we know, Shadows is not actually "in play." Fear of Winter doesn't stop you from putting more than 1 card from your hand directly into any other out-of-play area (like the discard pile). You may want to send the question to Nate to be sure. 

 

 

He will tell you that playing a card into shadows counts for the limit. We sent this question to him a couple of weeks ago and that was his answer.

The question here though is whether "putting" a card into shadows with effects like the City of Lies plot counts as "playing" or "putting into play."  My guess would be that it doesn't.

[eloooooooi 0]

I just said it counts for the limit. Ask him if you want, you already know the answer.

BTW, I don't like this ruling at all. Too bad for me

[ktom 598]

eloooooooi said:

I just said it counts for the limit. Ask him if you want, you already know the answer.

BTW, I don't like this ruling at all. Too bad for me

No, you just said that paying 2 gold to Marshal a card into Shadows from you hand counts as playing a card and thus counts toward the limit of 1 card "played or put into play from your hand" for Fear of Winter.

The current question is whether a card effect that puts a card into Shadows from your hand counts as "putting a card into play from your hand," and thus counts toward the limit. "Play" and "Put Into Play" are different things - especially when nothing ever actually enters play. The answer/ruling you got before only covers "play" for Shadows. It does not cover "put into play" for Shadows. So you cannot necessarily transfer the answer since the situations are different by definition.

Nate may say "put into Shadows counts the same as put into play," but it is a worthy question to ask and does not necessarily follow from "playing into Shadows from your hand counts the same as playing any card from your hand."

[eloooooooi 0]

ktom said:

eloooooooi said:

I just said it counts for the limit. Ask him if you want, you already know the answer.

 

BTW, I don't like this ruling at all. Too bad for me

 

No, you just said that paying 2 gold to Marshal a card into Shadows from you hand counts as playing a card and thus counts toward the limit of 1 card "played or put into play from your hand" for Fear of Winter.

You're right, my bad. Ask Nate and see if "putting a card into shadows from hand" counts as "putting a card into play from hand".

[Gualdo 0]

 I sent a question with the "ruling form" this afternoon... when I have a reply I'll tell you!

[eloooooooi 0]

 (v1.4) Fear of Winter F40
Playing or putting a card into Shadows from
your hand does count against the limitation
set by Fear of Winter. Bringing a card out of
Shadows does not count against this card's
limitation.

[plebeianmaw 0]

So let me get this straight.  Marshalling a card into the shadows counts as playing a card from your hand, but not putting a card into play?  And bringing a card out of shadows counts as bringing a card into play, but not from your hand, and does not count as "Playing" a card?

Sounds simple enough >_<

 

 

[ktom 598]

Since the FAQ entry is predominantly under Fear of Winter, it may be easier to think of it as "playing or putting a card into Shadows from your hand counts against the 'one card' restriction of Fear of Winter."

[Gualdo 0]

So Fear of Winter can "block"City of Lies (the city o Lies player can choose to put up to one card into shadow for plot effect)? I think Yes but just to be sure... 

[ktom 598]

Correct. Fear of Winter limits City of Lies to 1 card.

[kuba4 0]

Fear of Winter also blocked once my Darkstar as Intrigue claim - realy hate this card....

[FATMOUSE 0]

Kuba said:

Fear of Winter also blocked once my Darkstar as Intrigue claim - realy hate this card....

Ha, never thought about Darkstar and Fear of Winter.  Is it really considered to be played from your hand though?  My thoughts are yes, but maybe there is some weird state it's in once it's discarded.

[ktom 598]

FATMOUSE said:

Ha, never thought about Darkstar and Fear of Winter.  Is it really considered to be played from your hand though?  My thoughts are yes, but maybe there is some weird state it's in once it's discarded.

Well, it is considered to be "put into play" from your hand, which Fear of Winter also blocks.

Nate and I looked at this from a couple of different angles in a recent discussion. We determined that with "cannot" essentially meaning "don't even try," the plot effectively blocks the Darkstar's replacement effect from being applied to whatever effect is trying to discard him, letting that original discard effect go through.

[KyK 0]

ktom said:

Correct. Fear of Winter limits City of Lies to 1 card.

But if i am the first player, can i put the two cards into the shadows?

[eloooooooi 0]

No. It doesn't matter who the first player is, Fear of Winter's restriction is a constant effect.

[ktom 598]

eloooooooi said:

No. It doesn't matter who the first player is, Fear of Winter's restriction is a constant effect.

Exactly:

"(2.2) Plot Effect Resolution
Continuous or constant plot effects take effect
immediately and simultaneously, as soon as
the plot cards are revealed. The first player
determines the order in which all "when
revealed" plot effects are resolved. "