800 pt tournament list for convention this weekend

[Nicholas_Freeman 2]

Hey guys, I have an 800 pt convention tournament this weekend. I have played warmachine and other miniature games at nationals level, but don't know what the meta looks like for this game and haven't gotten a ton of test games in with these lists yet. 

between these two lists, which do you prefer? 

Luke Skywalker 160

Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
Rebel Troopers 40
Z-6 Trooper, Rebel Trooper, Impact Grenades, 
AT-RT 55
AT-RT Flame Thrower, 
AT-RT 55
AT-RT Laser Cannon, 

Darth Vader 200
Force Reflexes, Saber Throw, Force Push, 
Stormtroopers 44
DLT-19 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes, Impact Grenades, 
Stormtroopers 44
DLT-19 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes, Impact Grenades, 
Stormtroopers 44
DLT-19 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes, Impact Grenades, 
Stormtroopers 44
DLT-19 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes, Impact Grenades, 
Stormtroopers 44
HH-12 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes, 
Stormtroopers 44
HH-12 Stormtrooper, Stormtrooper, Targeting Scopes,

[nungunz 221]

On the rebel list, maybe drop a bunch of the impact grenades, you probably only need them on two or three squads (or zero if you decide to swap to 2-3 MPLs).

You have plenty of IA so noy sure if you need the flame thrower, the Rotary cannon is better over-all. Lascannon can be good as it is tpur only range 4 gun (dice are mediocre for the cost). Rotary cannon might be a better option, but it is up to you, I understand that want to have some longer range guns.

Luke is fine without upgrades, otherwise battle meditation or force reflexes are nice to haves.

 

On the imperial list, yoh have too many toys.

 

Vader is fine, Push can be flexed for battle meditation if yoh decide to take bikes.

Get rid of impact grenades (not needed, you already have plenty of AA. If anything, concussion grenades might be better, but still aren't needed), targeting scopes (you already get 3 re-rolls with AIM, I don't think you'll have 4 blanks all that often even with white dice), and the extra trooper (not needed, maybe extra trooper on grenade squads if you decide to take any). 

 

The 4-2 split on DLT and Rockets are fine.

I'd try to pick up 2 or 3 groups of speeder bikes, these guys are nuts (though require careful planning to). Compulsory move, shoot, dodge is almost always the correct play. Try to limit the number of enemy squad that can see them. Point-for-point bikes are about the most efficient weapon platform you can bring. Two of each die with Impact 2 gives a lot of flexibility.

[RaevenKS 111]

I do not understand people putting at the state of almost godlike the rotary blaster of the at-rt. Stats wise it is not even that impressive (even counting surge critics in it). 

The dices of the lacan are not mediocre for the price. You get 3 dices, impact 3, range 4. You can easely aim and shoot without moving an inch. And the flamethrower will do best against almost everything else (except commander, but you have other things to manage commander) than the rotary blaster. It's like you are all playing now wide open map with no Los blocker... Because in turn 2, flamer can already go through a bunch of thing... 

[nungunz 221]

@RaevenKS Fair point, I ran the number below.  Note that without spending more time on a more detailed statistical model, I can't really figure in things like range or the impact of time to close to range.

Assumptions for the below tables are that the target is in range or has moved into range and has LOS to all minis in the target unit.  The numbers listed are the average number of wounds inflicted on a unit (saves, surges, impact keyword, armor keyword are all considered). 

 

AT-RT w/ Rotary

(No Aim)	Normal	Dodge	Light	Heavy	Light Dodge
Stormtroopers	1.56	1.06	1.06	0.63	0.63
Rebel Troopers	2.08	1.42	1.42	0.83	0.83
AT-ST	0.83	0.83	0.83	0.83	0.83
74-Z Bikes	1.42	0.83	0.83	0.83	0.83
AT-RT	1.04	1.04	1.04	1.04	1.04
T-47 Speeder	0.83	0.83	0.83	0.83	0.83

(Aim) Normal Dodge Light Heavy Light Dodge Stormtroopers 2.15 1.65 1.65 0.86 0.86 Rebel Troopers 2.86 2.20 2.20 1.15 1.15 AT-ST 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15 74-Z Bikes 2.20 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15 AT-RT 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.43 T-47 Speeder 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15

 

 

AT-RT w/ Laser Cannon

(No Aim)	Normal	Dodge	Light	Heavy	Light Dodge
Stormtroopers	1.06	0.56	0.56	0.38	0.38
Rebel Troopers	1.42	0.75	0.75	0.50	0.50
AT-ST	1.42	0.75	0.75	0.50	0.50
74-Z Bikes	0.75	0.50	0.50	0.50	0.50
AT-RT	1.77	0.94	0.42	0.63	0.63
T-47 Speeder	0.75	0.50	0.50	0.50	0.50

 

(Aim)	Normal	Dodge	Light	Heavy	Light Dodge
Stormtroopers	1.35	0.85	0.85	0.48	0.48
Rebel Troopers	1.80	1.14	1.14	0.65	0.65
AT-ST	1.80	1.14	1.14	0.65	0.65
74-Z Bikes	1.14	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65
AT-RT	2.25	1.42	1.42	0.81	0.81
T-47 Speeder	1.14	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65

 

 

Summary

Laser Cannon (aim and non-aim) is better at wounding AT-STs and AT-RTs without dodge or cover than the Rotary, but is worse is all other respects.  Range isn't factored into the numbers.

Aimed Laser Cannon is better at wounding a T-47 speeder without dodge or cover than an non-aimed Rotary.

Laser cannon is only really ever worth taking if you plan on only shooting at AT-STs and AT-RTs that do not have cover or dodge.  Or, assuming you always aim and never have to move, you can add T-47s to the target list too.

Against AT-STs you, on average will kill one if you aim+shoot at it every single round (assuming it never get light cover from behind a large building).  AT-RTs are easier to keep out of LOS or in cover, so take what you will from that.

 

Honestly, I still don't really see a reason to ever take Laser Cannon unless you take two of them and flat-out want to hunt AT-STs.

 

The flame Thrower would be more of a graph and would take more time to come up with due to dependency on the number of minis in a unit.

Edited April 17, 2018 by nungunz

[Copes 225]

I play mostly Imperials, and I personally am not thrilled by the list.

I think you have over-equipped your Stormtroopers. You don't need Scopes, for one. With precise, you get to reroll 3 with aim. Being prepared to reroll 4 is overkill. 

I also don't think the HH-12s are that great. I'd rather have DLTs 99 times out of 100. They just don't work as well as you might inherently think, and most people are avoiding them on competitive lists. 

Lastly, you have your Vader built EXACTLY how I have been building mine. However, tonight I assessed the games I've played and I don't think I have used Force Push at all. It is very rare to be in Range 1... I dunno. That's not hugely necessary. 

I think that your list would be better served if you dropped all the Scopes, all the Nades, Force Push, and an entire unit of Stormtroopers. That would leave you at 620/800. You could then add 2 naked speederbikes, for a pretty competitive list. If you want long-range comms for the bikes, lose 1 DLT or 2 additional Stormtroopers.

[Rumar 244]

I'd rather be more consequential with the Stormtrooper list. If you think you can pull it off to direct those HH-12 squads against all  enemy armour, the DLT squads can take blast grenades. But as armour is faster, I'd prefer bringing only DLT with impact grenades, so the rebels can't pick off your anti-armour squads. Specialists are not always there where you need them, especially in a game where there is no fog of war whatsoever and the enemy sees them coming from a mile. The scopes are in order, I guess, if you are not expecting terrain that warrants grappling hooks - what else is there to spend points on, when you can't take more than six core troops. Taking speeder bikes would defeat the real charm of that list: no command problems.