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HanScottFirst

So, what is the deal with Vader?

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So, I have only played core box skirmishes by myself and will have my first 800 point game Wednesday. But my question is this:

What's the deal with Vader? He seems pretty strong to me. Has the best action economy to date (he can move 2x, evade, and attack every round). The command card M.o.E. is waaay good. He can take on Luke. Trooper squads don't stand a chance. He has Impact and Pierce 3, etc.

However, even on the 3' by 3', he seems slow. It's hard for him to ever get the full 6 dice as he usually has to chuck his saber.

So are the main issues Vader's speed and squad point costs? How do you deploy him? Do you try to get limited visibility, etc.?

Plus, my Stormtroopers have blue highlights on their armor for the 501st so I HAVE to make Vader work ;)

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He is not that slow. 

The point is, I think, to play on your superior firepower and not on chasing the rebels. Being less than 800pts can be a good idea as, for now, blue player starts placing objectives, and you are blue if you have the lesser point. Put the objectives the closest you can from you and from each other, and protects them. You have everything you need to do this job perfectly, and this will negate Vader's speed

For the transmission, just apply same strategy : find a good spot that give line of sight on middle objective with your at-st, and protect just 2 of 3 objectives (the closest). Vader will see what is son do, and protect also one of the objective. 

For breakthrough, well... Vader may be able to protect your deployment zone? I do not know. 

 

Still, do not underestimate saber throw. 3 red dices with both impact 3 and pierce 3 is insanely strong. 

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Position him to create a range 3 radius "No Panic" bubble for your Trooper squads. Try to keep him from positions where he is completely in the open and vulnerable to long range attacks, since he has more limited range and speed.  Protect an objective, or position him where he can "Vader sprint" (move x2 + attack) into melee on a high priority target.

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I think you are in a similar position to me.

Atm are you just playing smaller fights without objectives?  Im guessing when he an storm in and take an objective...thats a real impact.

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3 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Try to keep him from positions where he is completely in the open and vulnerable to long range attacks, since he has more limited range and speed

And yet at the same time, I like to bait the opponent with Vader in the open with a dodge token.
Last game he defended against 5 dice and reflected 3, suffering no wounds himself. He is a tempting target to shoot but hard to kill.

Unless two Airspeeders swoop in with help. That hurts.

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33 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

You could even move, evade, force reflexes for double evade. Put Vader in the open and just tank lol

You can do this? I mean it's not dodging twice So I guess I can't point to anything that says you can't, I've just never thought to do it lol

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Just now, RickyBobby17b said:

You can do this? I mean it's not dodging twice So I guess I can't point to anything that says you can't, I've just never thought to do it lol

You can't perform the dodge action twice, but I believe force reflexes is technically a different action that assigns a dodge token. So regular dodge action + force reflexes should be two seperate, legal actions with the net effect of two dodge tokens.

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4 hours ago, HanScottFirst said:

You can't perform the dodge action twice, but I believe force reflexes is technically a different action that assigns a dodge token. So regular dodge action + force reflexes should be two seperate, legal actions with the net effect of two dodge tokens.

This is how x-wing works, and everything that’s out so far suggests that legion is using the same ruling here. “Assigning tokens” is not counted as an action. Force reflexes is its own separate free action that assigns a dodge token, rather than giving you a dodge action. 

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Vader is less scary to face than Luke due to Luke's vastly better mobility, no matter where you hide your units Luke can almost always reach them. Vader can often be ignored, and the huge point sink he represents means the opponent should be able to overpower the parts of the table where Vader isn't present. 

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Vader is quite good. Think of him less as a straight killer and more of 10 inch bubble that your opponent has to stay out of. He is like a Sheep dog. Herding them Rebs into E11 range and sorting out any that survive, or taking a valuable objective that you have to have.

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1 minute ago, Hawktel said:

Vader is quite good. Think of him less as a straight killer and more of 10 inch bubble that your opponent has to stay out of. He is like a Sheep dog. Herding them Rebs into E11 range and sorting out any that survive, or taking a valuable objective that you have to have.

10"?  Big fan of Force Push?

Edited by LunarSol

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I've only played the starter game because my friends wanted to learn. Dang was that hard for me to not get to use Vader like I keep hearing. He's a little pointless with no upgrades. Though I did kill Luke both times with him.

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Vader needs Force Reflexes and Sabre Throw, and is (in my opinion) best used for zone control. The number one card you want to eliminate when playing with Vader is breakthrough. For all other objectives, he can be very powerful, as he can lock down one or two objectives. The key is to not feel like you have to move him. Instead, scare people off of coming inside Vader's bubble. 

The times I have messed up with Vader have been times I have left him unactivated in the open, or when I have tried to move him too far. 

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On 4/15/2018 at 1:19 PM, HanScottFirst said:

So, I have only played core box skirmishes by myself and will have my first 800 point game Wednesday. But my question is this:

What's the deal with Vader? He seems pretty strong to me. Has the best action economy to date (he can move 2x, evade, and attack every round). The command card M.o.E. is waaay good. He can take on Luke. Trooper squads don't stand a chance. He has Impact and Pierce 3, etc.

However, even on the 3' by 3', he seems slow. It's hard for him to ever get the full 6 dice as he usually has to chuck his saber.

So are the main issues Vader's speed and squad point costs? How do you deploy him? Do you try to get limited visibility, etc.?

Plus, my Stormtroopers have blue highlights on their armor for the 501st so I HAVE to make Vader work ;)

Darth Vader does whatever the **** Darth Vader wants. 

If Darth Vader decides he’s gonna take his time leisurely strolling across the battlefield, that is what Darth Vader will do. You will not only accept this, you will like it. And when- or if- Darth Vader arrives to the battle, you will bow down and thank Darth Vader for deigning to grace you with his awe-inspiring majestic Darth Vader presence. 

And you better pray to God Almighty that Darth Vader does not deem your level of faith insufficient, because if Darth Vader finds you disturbing, you’re gonna need God’s help. Or at least establish a rapport, since you’ll be meeting him soon...

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You don't play Vader in anything quickly moving, that's just not the way he operates.

Vader works by being the hammer that forces your opponents to react to him and either dump a LOT of resources into stopping/slowing him down or staying the **** away from him as he is also very good at holding his objectives.

Terrain is also his friend since he can't be slowed down by it while it makes escape difficult, think about his juggernaut moment in Rogue One, because that's what he is.

Use him as the big threat when properly tooled out and realize that there are also weaknesses he has just as he has strengths.

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Funny enough I played my first 800 as Long March/Intercept Transmission and Vader ended the game contesting the far objective with quite a bit of terrain to work around. His glaring issue is he is too expensive with no upgrades, but he TRULY makes Saber Throw and Force Reflexes work. I had Vader double move all but two rounds, but he was taking Dodges and flinging sabers like a boss. Never meleed once and it was fine.

 

That said he really restricts Empire unit count so I will probably lean towards Veers. In my own head having more units is more strategic, BUT I was pleasantly surprised by Vader. Run him near some Troopers and when they need to hold or pull back let him just power forward.

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