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Shadow345

X-Wing a Dead Game?

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1 hour ago, Icelom said:

You claim you want positioning to matter then complain about something that is hard countered by positioning (ordnance).

You can dislike the game, but your reasoning is way off. If ordnance is bothering you then I don't think you were terrible good at positioning in the first place.

 

i see, so i disagree with your argument so you attack me personally.  ad hominem attacks dont belong on this board.

alpha strikes happen in the initial aproach, which is hardly a difficult positioning feat.  mines and bombs could be a ton of fun if they werent paired with turrets, but they virtually always are. you can disagree but it isnt an issue of reasoning, its opinion

anyway this is a discussion about our respective opinions of the game state, which I and many others find NPE. the point is the lack of enthusiasm is so bad in some groups that i can now only get 1 of what was once a 12 person play group to play. most of my friends sold their collections last year.  the tournament scene is an extreme minority of the playerbase, less than 1 in 100, so its very difficult to gaige whos getting out, but ebay sales of whole collections are skyrocketing and 2 of my local gamestores have cancelled x-wing night. its certainly worth talking about

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10 minutes ago, magwraith said:

We over doubled the number of participants from last years CAC where I am and every Friday night we fill every available table with ships until they kick us out. So the game is alive and well here.

where are you?

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3 hours ago, jonnyd said:

You should get to know more people. 

Don't know if you heard or not, but worlds sold out a 3rd full day this year over 2 last year, Europe had an almost 500 person single tournament, CAC this year was over 950 people (a lot who have posted about how much fun they had).  Time for new friends, yo!

way less than 1 in a 100 players attend tournaments. its not a great metric.

many games (mtg for example) have almost seperate tourney and casual scenes with little overlap. you can have strong tournament scenes when the game is toxic or imbalanced because power gamers get drawn in by powercreep, or have thriving casual scenes when the game doesnt have tournaments at all.  the general playerbase is what keeps a game in print, and the only real way to rate that is sales of ships.

Its entirely anecdotal, but ive been seeing game stores put x-wing stuff on clearance or extreme discount a lot. that makes me concerned

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It's self evidently not true that X Wing is dead. But I do think it's a legitimate question as to whether X Wing has peaked. Obviously there's no single answer - it's going to depend on the metric you use, and we lack the data for the big ones (sales, new players joining etc.), so we have to rely on anecdotal evidence. Purely anecdotally, I feel like at the very least growth has peaked in my local area, and maybe player numbers are even on the way down. There seems to be more people selling collections than buying on the local FB page, our regional was pretty much the same size as last year (having grown every previous year, and despite expectations that it would grow again this year). My best metric is probably league night participation, where we could previously reliably get a dozen or more people, now 4-8 is a standard night (a small change, but a fairly consistent one).

I doubt there's much we can do about it to be honest. Everything has a life cycle, and FFG games tend not to have enormously long life cycles. The transition to a downward slope of participation is inevitable until or unless it stabilises at some level. The only real question is where that level will be.

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3 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Miranda Nym meta and Last Jedi hate means X-Wing a Dead Game?

 

Nobody I know has liked the game since 2016 early 2017.

 

2 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

How do we deal with Last Jedi hate?

 

People I know won't engage with any Star Wars related media anymore because of their dislike of the movie.

Sounds like the problem is the people you know, not the game.

 

Or, judging by the doom and gloom posts, it might be you, but I've not met you so I don't know :)

 

Image result for its all good gif

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There are two lgs in my area. Both put on weekly casual play, a monthly tournament and a monthly micro tournament. All with good attendance. Picked up two new players that have all the makings of full blown XWM addicts. So no, X-wing is not a dead game.

I really don't know where you come up with some of these ideas. As for the Last Jedi hate, I will say this. It was a good movie but it was not as satisfying as Rogue One. I think that some of what was included was designed as a merchandising money grab, added nothing to the story and should've been omitted. 

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3 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

How do we deal with Last Jedi hate?

 

People I know won't engage with any Star Wars related media anymore because of their dislike of the movie.

Don’t.  I don’t want to force people to play something they hate and I don’t want to play with someone who hates what I love. 

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My FLGS has nearly entirely switched from X-wing to Armada for casual and league play. We still do bi-monthly (or so) X-wing tournaments, with about the same attendance, but it's not really the same. Only one of us flies meta lists, and cops a lot of grump for it. I'm finding the game incredibly boring in-person, mainly due to the limitations of my collection, but I'm very avid about Vassal play.

Armada is a better game in every way except time constraints, and even then the difference is about 15 minutes when played well. I played a game last night with 19 squadrons on the board (5 ships), and the game was finished within 1.5 hours. I can't even imagine how long it'd take to actually resolve a mirror Low+Miranda match to completion.

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1 hour ago, Astech said:

My FLGS has nearly entirely switched from X-wing to Armada for casual and league play. We still do bi-monthly (or so) X-wing tournaments, with about the same attendance, but it's not really the same. Only one of us flies meta lists, and cops a lot of grump for it. I'm finding the game incredibly boring in-person, mainly due to the limitations of my collection, but I'm very avid about Vassal play.

Armada is a better game in every way except time constraints, and even then the difference is about 15 minutes when played well. I played a game last night with 19 squadrons on the board (5 ships), and the game was finished within 1.5 hours. I can't even imagine how long it'd take to actually resolve a mirror Low+Miranda match to completion.

Our wargame club has switched from X Wing to Armada. The number of players is smaller but Armada seems to have the greater longevity.

X Wing was killed at our club by the dominance of obscure ships, the complexity and length of the FAQ and the fact that uber card combos are more important than flying.

For me X Wing was a nice change from historical games. I never had the time, interest or inclination to find out who the non movie characters were and found it disappointing that they appeared to be so much better than Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader et al. Some games bear no resemblance to the Star Wars films at all these days, you could be playing any generic space combat game.

 

Edited by Bolshevik65

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1 hour ago, Bolshevik65 said:

X Wing was killed at our club by the dominance of obscure ships, the complexity and length of the FAQ and the fact that uber card combos are more important than flying.

For me X Wing was a nice change from historical games. I never had the time, interest or inclination to find out who the non movie characters were and found it disappointing that they appeared to be so much better than Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader et al. Some games bear no resemblance to the Star Wars films at all these days, you could be playing any generic space combat game.

Good point. By wave 4 X-wing was dominated by off-screen ships like E-wings and Phantoms. From that point forward it went downhill.

In Armada, ISDs are a very viable, very thematic threat. People stop and stare at the game in ways they never did with X-wing.

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2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

75 minutes.

In Swiss, sure. But at some final tables, 2 hours. At others, a nearly infinite amount of time.

In a casual setting, probably 30 minutes until both players are too bored to continue.

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My local scene is still going along strong, and the UK tournament scene is nuts - 500 players at the UK System Open, with European Championships having almost sold out for a similar number, and most UK regionals pushing 100 people and still selling out within a week or less.  (My FLGS had their 70ish player regional sell out in less than 24 hours.)

That said, there's definitely more competition in the market now.  I'm back to playing 40k alongside X-Wing now that 8th Edition has proved to be fun, and we've had people move from X-Wing to Shadespire as well.  X-Wing had a period of basically being uncontested for the spot of "easily accessible miniatures game" while Games Workshop were floundering, but at least locally there's been a very strong revival of interest in Games Workshop games.  That isn't to say that people suddenly hate X-Wing, but it does mean there's notably more options for them to spend their gaming time on.

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The wheel of pain...

SPRING. New game. Young. Fresh. Few material available.

SUMMER. Job well done. Players eager to buy more and more. "Game of the Year". New groups every day, everywhere.

AUTUM. Zillions of expansions. But game evolves and it is not the same. Last Codex Best Codex. Fans plays the game on a regular basis, but perhaps a little tired. Not easy to start playing now.

 

WINTER. People start moving away. Too many expansions. Bad combos and interactions. New edition or Die.

 

I think this is AUTUM.

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@OP: To answer your question no.
But based on the number of players in my area who've lost interest in it then it's looking like a game that's peaked. That's obviously not a great indicator for the state of the game overall, but if you look at other posts in this thread that are saying something similar then it could be indicative of a trend.

It's ok saying that such and such a competition has increased but if the casual player numbers at local stores are decreasing then something is wrong with the state of the game.

Personally? I think the rot started when Asmodee bought the game out. I've no idea how much they paid for it but they've got to recoup that money somehow, and this is evident by introducing ships to the game with less than a minutes worth of screentime (yes you Quadjumper you fugly little ship) and Saw's Renegades. They're even boasting about the fact that they can't be bothered bringing new products to market -

"Rather than introducing completely new ships to the game, this expansion follows in the vein of the Rebel Aces Expansion Pack and the Heroes of the Resistance Expansion Pack by introducing new versions of existing ships already in the service of the Rebel Alliance. In this case, you’ll find two new ship miniatures—a U-wing and a T-65 X-wing, both pre-painted in the stunning red-and-white paint scheme of Saw Gerrera’s freedom fighters."

I've never seen Saw Gerrera's stunning paintjob. If that isn't milking the player base then what is?

Rant aside, imho the game is in very real danger of stagnating and ultimately dying unless something can be done to redress the reasons for people dropping it.

Cheers
Baaa

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45 minutes ago, Hexdot said:

The wheel of pain...

SPRING. New game. Young. Fresh. Few material available.

SUMMER. Job well done. Players eager to buy more and more. "Game of the Year". New groups every day, everywhere.

AUTUM. Zillions of expansions. But game evolves and it is not the same. Last Codex Best Codex. Fans plays the game on a regular basis, but perhaps a little tired. Not easy to start playing now.

 

WINTER. People start moving away. Too many expansions. Bad combos and interactions. New edition or Die.

 

I think this is AUTUM.

Winter is coming

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