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X-Wing a Dead Game?

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On April 12, 2018 at 1:22 PM, theBitterFig said:

I grew up with the films.  Star Wars has been part of my life as long as I can remember.  I'm late 30s.  There are lots of folks like me who love TLJ, or have only minor issues.

So you were "young"  after the original trilogy came out. You never saw one original in the cinema, with the ability to remember (your parents may have taken you as a baby/toddler though). Other entities existed to channel fantasy, post SWars (it trailblazed), and you were a part of them.

Sorry, but you are not in the demographic of my peer group.

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16 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

So you were "young"  after the original trilogy came out. You never saw one original in the cinema, with the ability to remember (your parents may have taken you as a baby/toddler though). Other entities existed to channel fantasy, post SWars (it trailblazed), and you were a part of them.

Sorry, but you are not in the demographic of my peer group.

Holy ****, dude, elitist much?  By the vague values given regarding age by both of you, you guys are within 5-7 years of age of each other.  If he was “young” when the movies came out, SO WERE YOU.  Mid 40’s?  So you were what, 4 when New Hope released?  7 for ESB?  Fine.  You were a teen for RotJ.  Just because you remember seeing them in theaters in their original form and someone else first watched them on tape a few years later doesn’t make you a better/bigger fan of Star Wars.  It doesn’t mean that all of us Gen-Xers (or very early Millenials) are some how distinct and you have a monopoly on what “real fans” like or don’t like.  And guess what, the special editions are full of plenty of garbage, but we still got to see the original opening crawl on the big screen.  We still got to hear the fanfare from movie theater sound systems, and I can remember that feeling a **** of a lot better as a 15 year old at the time than you, as a toddler. 

Just, like the movies you like and dislike the movies you dislike.  No one has any claim to being “more” of a Star Wars fan than anyone else.

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41 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

No one has any claim to being “more” of a Star Wars fan than anyone else.

Nope, I’m the final arbiter of SW fandom.  Because.  That’s why.  And GUNBOAT.

 

also, if you are capable of seeing the opening shot of the Tantive IV followed by the Devastator and feeling the AWE and POWER of that ship not just moving across the screen but also over your head and threatening to smother the entire theater, then you are my kind of SW fan.

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1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Sure wish we could have a discussion about plastic space ships without devolving onto rants about the ST.

At this point, I fear it's impossible.  Just as during the early Aughts everything ended up with people complaining about the NJO or the Prequels. 

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I saw Star Wars in theater -- and drive-in! -- when I was nine years old.  Loved it.  Saw ESB 51 times in the theater.  Memorized it.  Saw RotJ in the theater when I was 15.  Passed up making out with my GF to keep my eyes on the screen.

There are fewer flaws, objectively speaking, with TLJ than there are with SW or with RotJ.  I don't love TLJ the same way.  I'm 49 years old; I'm not supposed to.  But it's a fine film, and I enjoyed it very much, both times I saw it.

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1 hour ago, Larky Bobble said:

So you were "young"  after the original trilogy came out. You never saw one original in the cinema, with the ability to remember (your parents may have taken you as a baby/toddler though). Other entities existed to channel fantasy, post SWars (it trailblazed), and you were a part of them.

Sorry, but you are not in the demographic of my peer group.

 

I am in my mid 30's when I was in grade 6 (i think) the university theater got a massive upgrade to its sound system.... and they also found the original trilogy star wars reels that were lost in storage. They then, of course, did a marathon of the original trilogy and I sat in the theater and loved the crap out of it (i had seen them on VHS before that).

I may be younger then you but that does not mean I had the same or dare I say better (brand new more modern sound system) experience than you.

My 4-year-old is obsessed with Star Wars and he has only seen small clips I have approved from various sources. He is exposed to my 100's of Star Wars Lego sets and plays with them constantly, he helps me with every new lego build, he makes my wife roleplay as Jaba the hut (even though she is a tiny woman) as it is his second favorite character and he runs around as general grievous (4 lightsabers is cool). So my son who is probably more obsessed with Star Wars then you is only 4..... Age means almost nothing in a fandom as large as Star Wars. 

Lastly, I am glad you are not in my peer group because you sound like someone I would not want to hang around with, some serious elitism spewing out of you. Climb down from your high horse and realize that you do not know a monopoly on being a "true fan" everyone who enjoys Star Wars in any way is a true fan.

 

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eh, but since we're here and not discussing the game being dead since there's not much there to discuss, I didn't really like TLJ

but when I look back at ROTJ, there are a LOT of the same problems. There are a lot of superfluous scenes, a LOT of goofy bull that makes the bad guys look severely incompetent (******* Endor), the supporting cast don't get to do a whole lot (do there is the illusion of their efforts with the shield generator, which is a far cry more than what poor Finn got), and just about all the good stuff takes place between the dark and light side force users and/or in the Emperor's throne room

I'd like to say that TLJ was not as good because it had that Disney/Marvel tonal whiplash between being really goofy (poe's prank phone call) and really dramatic (all the bombers die), but goddamn if cutting from the Deathstar back to Endor didn't do the exact same thing.

I don't know, I guess (apart from nostalgia) ROTJ might've felt more impactful because it was the third movie of a series that had its characters develop over the last two movies. the ST doesn't have as much movie to work with

The only thing I can say for certain that was unequivocally, sub-optimally handled was Finn's role. His was exactly the perspective the audience needed to get an insight into the first order (where they came from, how they secured all these weapons, how they managed to bring so many people under their heel, what were their methods of intimidation and brainwashing especially given the stormtrooper indoctrination hinted in the Force Awakens, etc. etc etc) and the kind of person you have to be to escape from it all.

sadly, he had about the same impact in the movie as Han DoorLo

landscape-1470756002-star-wars-return-of

huge waste of potential, imo

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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6 hours ago, Embir82 said:

Let me just say that this post proved that there is no sense in talking with you. On this forum I've never seen so many ridiculous statements cumulated in one single post in a long time.

The first 4 paragraphs were entirely factual. The fifth was based on List Juggler's statistics. The sixth was primarily factual, with some experience of mine as well. Where are these ridiculous statements, or were you just avoiding an uncomfortable discussion?

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41 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

Holy ****, dude, elitist much?  By the vague values given regarding age by both of you, you guys are within 5-7 years of age of each other.  If he was “young” when the movies came out, SO WERE YOU.  Mid 40’s?  So you were what, 4 when New Hope released?  7 for ESB?  Fine.  You were a teen for RotJ.  Just because you remember seeing them in theaters in their original form and someone else first watched them on tape a few years later doesn’t make you a better/bigger fan of Star Wars.  It doesn’t mean that all of us Gen-Xers (or very early Millenials) are some how distinct and you have a monopoly on what “real fans” like or don’t like.  And guess what, the special editions are full of plenty of garbage, but we still got to see the original opening crawl on the big screen.  We still got to hear the fanfare from movie theater sound systems, and I can remember that feeling a **** of a lot better as a 15 year old at the time than you, as a toddler. 

Just, like the movies you like and dislike the movies you dislike.  No one has any claim to being “more” of a Star Wars fan than anyone else.

Well said.

I mean, my older brother is about 5 years older than me, he's early 40s.  You ought to see the beautiful old Kenner "The Force Lightsaber" and hear the hum as it moves.  My folks got it for him when... I don't remember if it was me or my brother coming home from the hospital.  The first IP-based toys he gave his daughter?  Star Wars and Doctor Who.  Anyhow, he liked TLJ.  Me, my family, this is in our blood as much as anyone else.

Someone didn't like it, their friends didn't like, fine.  That's good, actually.  Not everyone has to like the same things: the world would be boring otherwise.  But what irks me is this vibe I get from a lot of (not all) folks who didn't like TLJ where they seem attribute their dislike to most other folks too, and dismiss anyone who doesn't share their opinion.

Fact is, a lot of folks liked it, but are simply less vocal about it.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

eh, but since we're here and not discussing the game being dead since there's not much there to discuss, I didn't really like TLJ

I mean, the OP suggested the game was dead in part because of TLJ-hate, so the topic was kinda there from the start.

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I liked TLJ.  It was a very good movie, and the sequel trilogy is telling a story that I find engaging and compelling. 

That being said, I am conflicted about it as a Star Wars story.  Very little takes my breath away the way the throne room battle did, or heck, even the duel in episode 1.  Nothing grabbed me the way that first seeing the binary sunset did.

Maybe that’s just part of growing up (but I will note that Jurassic World made me feel exactly the way Jurassic Park did).  There are still absolutely amazing scenes (mostly involving Poe and X-Wings), but really Rogue One felt a heck of a lot more like Star Wars than these movies have.

Again, I really enjoyed TLJ, and I actually think Adam Driver was phenomenal in it.  The throne room battle was very well done, it just lacked the gravitas (and music) of Vader and Luke’s final showdown.

Its kind of like when you are young and your parents are like gods, then there’s that moment for everyone when they realize that they are just people.  You love them, and they mean so much to you, but they are just people.  That is what the sequel trilogy has been so far.

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6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

.

I mean, the OP suggested the game was dead in part because of TLJ-hate, so the topic was kinda there from the start.

oh, I see

but yeah, that's a bit silly

we can't really derive an easy model for how much these movies have affected the entire fanbase of Star Wars, especially given intentions to add new members to it via these new movies, and we'd have an even harder time deriving the impact they'd have on X-wing miniatures. we can really only share opinions

though I'd have to say my enjoyment, or lack thereof, of these Disney movies  have at best an indirect influence on my ability to enjoy the game. Doesn't matter that I felt TLJ wasted about half its runtime, the Silencer is goddamn sexy and a joy to fly

 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I'm in that "Star Wars Generation" group, born right at the end of the 70s. In utero for Empire, but really wanted to name my little brother Luke Skywalker. ESB pajamas, RotJ bedspread, and I ended up majoring in music more or less because of the John Williams score. 

Now I teach high school. My students are all about the prequels. Three years ago, I had a student tell me, absolutely seriously, that Jar Jar Binks was his favorite Star Wars character (even though he was old enough by that point to understand the racist caricature bits). He pointed out that he saw Phantom Menace when he was a little kid. I have a group of students this year that tries to turn everything into prequel memes (high ground/you were a brother to me/etc.) That's their Star Wars. It's fine. 

There's going to be a generation whose Star Wars is defined by Kylo Ren's ridiculous crossguard and Rey swinging lightsabers with her hair in a triple bun. By porgs (rather than pogs, ah the years pass so swiftly). I swear TFA single-handedly brought shoulder-holed sweaters to my school. 

I liked TLJ, thought it had the "traditional" amount and type of ridiculous plot holes. I thought the prequels had an interesting underlying story that was told almost entirely in the wrong tone (and with mediocre-to-terrible performances from some otherwise fine actors). I treasure the original trilogy not because the movies are great, but because of what they mean and have meant to me (entire Saturdays watching it on pirated VHS tapes, playing the soundtrack on cassette in my car when I was nervous about driving at night, et cetera). 

[--*--]

I think X-Wing, as a game, has plenty of analogues to those different feelings about the movies. A lot of us picked it up because "man, X-wings are cool." The core mechanic of dials and dice is pretty easy to pick up but has enough depth and counterplay to hold attention. Yeah, dials and dice are not as important as they were in the early waves. There's no doubt people have been turned off by that, or by competitive groupthink, or even just forum salt. The game has a ton of moving parts and players seem better at finding the cracks between them than the devs are. 

None of that makes X-Wing a dead game any more than a subset's reviling TLJ makes Star Wars a dead franchise. Maybe it's plateaued, maybe it really does need a 2.0, maybe there's somehow a perfect FAQ around the corner...but it's a long way from dead.

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For what it's worth, I'm an Original Trilogy era fan, I really didn't enjoy TLJ at all, to the point where I have zero interest in where the story goes from here (I'm looking forward to Solo though).

That apathy towards the sequel films has had absolutely zero impact on my enjoyment of our beloved miniatures game.  I play as often as I can, and I don't see that changing for the foreseeable future.

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It’s ok to like TLJ.

its ok to not like TLJ.

whats not ok is to say it’s the greatest movie ever made, or the worst movie ever made, that’s just hyperbole serving an agenda.  And it’s definitely not ok to use SW to serve an agenda other than ‘movies about space wizards are cool’.

i can totally see why people don’t like the ST.  And I can see why people like it. Nothing is gonna replace ANH or ESB or the good parts of RotJ in my heart (except the TIE Fighter game.  GUNBOAT) and nothing will ever ruin my childhood.  The 1986 Transformers movie did that.  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

It’s ok to like TLJ.

its ok to not like TLJ.

whats not ok is to say it’s the greatest movie ever made, or the worst movie ever made, that’s just hyperbole serving an agenda.  And it’s definitely not ok to use SW to serve an agenda other than ‘movies about space wizards are cool’.

i can totally see why people don’t like the ST.  And I can see why people like it. Nothing is gonna replace ANH or ESB or the good parts of RotJ in my heart (except the TIE Fighter game.  GUNBOAT) and nothing will ever ruin my childhood.  The 1986 Transformers movie did that.  

I hated the movie with a passion, but I can live with other people enjoying it. What gets to me though is when I criticise obvious flaws in the move and I get backlash from dogmatic fans that try to excuse every mistake.

The 1986 transformers movie ruined my childhood too. And I was born after its release.

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7 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

It’s ok to like TLJ.  its ok to not like TLJ.  whats not ok is to say it’s the greatest movie ever made, or the worst movie ever made...

I'm my ever so humble opinion, it's the worst Star Wars movie ever made.  Yes, even Attack of the Clones was better in my book.

7 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Nothing will ever ruin my childhood.  The 1986 Transformers movie did that. 

....whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?  But, but Hot Rod was the saviour!  And Ultra Magnus was rubbish!  And Prime!  The Matrix!  Have you no soul, man?

28 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

I had a full English breakfast.  The black pudding was surprisingly good considering how far south I am here.

Mmm.  Breakfast.

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