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16 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

But that only has sense if these activations replace those granted by Centicore and relay doesn't do that. After these activation you didn't activate a single squadron at close medium range of Centicore so you didn't fulfill it's restriction. 

Now i see what you mean. Well, this is how i would understand it (the way i wrote it). Because there was no question about it in the past (when relay could activate from everywhere) the question never came up it seems. Seems you need to wait for the next FAQ in 4 month :D.

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1 minute ago, Tokra said:

Now i see what you mean. Well, this is how i would understand it (the way i wrote it). Because there was no question about it in the past (when relay could activate from everywhere) the question never came up it seems. Seems you need to wait for the next FAQ in 4 month :D.

4 month? Wow! Does that means FAQ was faqed? I put my hope on next year but that's great! It will be for the national.

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On 9.4.2018 at 3:07 PM, ovinomanc3r said:

What "in range to be activated" means?

Did anyone recognise the following question and answer in the faq (p. 8)

Q: Does a squadron with relay need to be close–medium
range of the ship that is activating squadrons so that those
squadrons can activate?
A: No.

For that "in range to be activated" does not mean "close-medium range of the ship that is activating".

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1 hour ago, slasher956 said:

I took that to mean relay could be close - long of a ship with boosted comms and still work

That's right! But IMHO there is no clear difference to other options.

Edited by Triangular

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2 minutes ago, Triangular said:

That's right! But IMHO there is no clear difference to other options.

So you agree with the assumption that if I can activate it, it is in range to be activated right?

Edited by ovinomanc3r

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1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

So you agree with the assumption that if I can activate it, it is in range to be activated right?

Yes. I would say this are two expressions to describe one incidence.

I would follow the bubble-theory:

On 7.4.2018 at 3:11 PM, Madaghmire said:

And this right here, is where I disagree. If you are being activated by a ship, you are in range to be activated. I see no difference if that extension which allows for you to be activated is created by a relay bubble or by boosted comms. Every single person saying otherwise has created a distinction based on nothing. There is no such thing as activation range as a clearly defined term.

 

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1 hour ago, Triangular said:

Yes. I would say this are two expressions to describe one incidence.

I would follow the bubble-theory:

 

Then you will agree with the following situation where 1 ship is able to activate 6 squadrons beyond "nornal" activation range.

S-1L-3L-6D 

S=ship; L=lambda; D=defender 

It has nothing to do with rules of course but it seems funny that a channel 2 squadrons width allows to connect with any number of squadrons.

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2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Then you will agree with the following situation where 1 ship is able to activate 6 squadrons beyond "nornal" activation range.

S-1L-3L-6D 

S=ship; L=lambda; D=defender 

It has nothing to do with rules of course but it seems funny that a channel 2 squadrons width allows to connect with any number of squadrons.

Definitive false. The ship gives a command. If only 1 Lambda is in range, this Lambda can only relay two commands. It doesn't matter if there are any other relay-squadrons at any further point or not.

In your scenario S -> L1 -> L2/3 > TIEs 1/2/3/4 you just miss that L2/3 NEED the relay from L1 to give another relay. L2/3 cannot relay independendly from L1.

But I see your point, that following RAW there seems to be no restriction because L1 seems to be passive. It's not IMO. The bubble doesn't just exist, but it must be created through RELAY. (I can activate L2 or L3 ONLY IF I use relay!) And that's the reason, why L1 is active in a chain and restricts the number of orders you can give at any end of it.

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The limitations in this case is the amount of sqns that have their activation's passed through each relay.  So a Lambda with Relay 2 can only have a max of 2 sqns activated using its relay keyword ... irrespective of if there are any other lambdas in the chain.

So you would only be able to command 2 sqns through a ship > lambda > lambda chain.  to command 3 you would need Ship > L1 > L2 > S1 & S2, then Ship > L3 > L4 > S3

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22 minutes ago, Triangular said:

Definitive false. The ship gives a command. If only 1 Lambda is in range, this Lambda can only relay two commands. It doesn't matter if there are any other relay-squadrons at any further point or not.

In your scenario S -> L1 -> L2/3 > TIEs 1/2/3/4 you just miss that L2/3 NEED the relay from L1 to give another relay. L2/3 cannot relay independendly from L1.

But I see your point, that following RAW there seems to be no restriction because L1 seems to be passive. It's not IMO. The bubble doesn't just exist, but it must be created through RELAY. (I can activate L2 or L3 ONLY IF I use relay!) And that's the reason, why L1 is active in a chain and restricts the number of orders you can give at any end of it.

But if you agreed with this:

3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

So you agree with the assumption that if I can activate it, it is in range to be activated right?

Then anything I can activate with relay is in range as long as I can activate it. Relay wording as nothing  to do with relaying commands. That's not what it does.

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10 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

But if you agreed with this:

Then anything I can activate with relay is in range as long as I can activate it. Relay wording as nothing  to do with relaying commands. That's not what it does.

As I said before. You CAN activate L2 only of you ALREADY USE L1's relay. The number of possible uses is restricted to the number behind RELAY.

It's only logic! If you need  1x A to let happen 1x B, than B cannot exceed A in numbers.

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11 minutes ago, Triangular said:

As I said before. You CAN activate L2 only of you ALREADY USE L1's relay. The number of possible uses is restricted to the number behind RELAY.

It's only logic! If you need  1x A to let happen 1x B, than B cannot exceed A in numbers.

What logic says is that:

L1, is in range? Yes. So I can use its relay to activate L2, L3 and L4. 

L2,3,4, are that in range?  Yes cause I can activate them thanks to relay of L1. So I can use their relay to activate defenders. 

Did I exceed the relay 2 limitation of L1? Let's see: how many squadrons I activated with its relay? 0, then no I didn't. 

That's the thing: to chain lambdas we don't need to actively use the relay keyword of the first one. We just need it to be there, allowing to activate as long as the only limitation we put to activation range is being able to activate, not actually activating anything.

Even agreeing about the use of the first relay the others lambdas are not activated and in any way we can argue that the defenders we did activate were activated with the L1's relay cause they didn't. 

If we had to activate a lambda to use its relay I would agree but that's not the case.

I insist as I am not actually activating anything with the first relay I am not breaking the 2 limitation so I am able to still using as long as I do not activate 3 or more squadrons using its relay. 

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4 minutes ago, elbmc1969 said:

OK, the "exploding chain Nulay" explodes the whole idea of chaining. It's going off into so many insane permutations and rules questions that chaining can't possibly be allowed.

it's not hard at all, your either in range to be activated or not, there is no permutations or rules questions beyond that, it is a simple yes/no. And remembering that 1 Lambada = 2 activations.

At best 6 squadrons can be activated at the end of a chain. (at once)

But lets just look at the mechanics involved in doing this, for a min req chain to activate 6 squadrons, you need 5 Lambadas, 2 placed to be the bridge, 3 placed to be the activation bubble for your 6 hitters, and the 5 Lambadas need to be in place before you activate your 6 hitters, and they move speed 3 so good luck even getting 5 Lambadas in position in one turn to activate as a chain.

 

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12 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

it's not hard at all, your either in range to be activated or not, there is no permutations or rules questions beyond that, it is a simple yes/no. And remembering that 1 Lambada = 2 activations.

At best 6 squadrons can be activated at the end of a chain. (at once)

But lets just look at the mechanics involved in doing this, for a min req chain to activate 6 squadrons, you need 5 Lambadas, 2 placed to be the bridge, 3 placed to be the activation bubble for your 6 hitters, and the 5 Lambadas need to be in place before you activate your 6 hitters, and they move speed 3 so good luck even getting 5 Lambadas in position in one turn to activate as a chain.

 

4 lambdas 

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And you need a ship with squadron value 4 + Expanded Hangars + token. And point investment in 4 Lambdas is nearly half of your squadron potential. So all together even if it will be judged to be legal I would expect, it won't happen too offen.

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1 hour ago, Triangular said:

And you need a ship with squadron value 4 + Expanded Hangars + token. And point investment in 4 Lambdas is nearly half of your squadron potential. So all together even if it will be judged to be legal I would expect, it won't happen too offen.

Anyone discuss it. The thing is that if you may bypass the nerf due to a point investment, better they increase the cost of relay squadrons and done. 

But I am not against the chain. I think it is not RAI but I don't care how they decide to resolve it.

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Finally a picture to show the problem with chaining.


“When a friendly ship resolves a squadron command, if you are in range to be activated, up to 2 of the squadrons it activates can be at distance 1–3 of you.”

7 is a Quasar (without Boosted Comms) with a Squadron command and can activate 6 squadrons (Hangar Bays and Token).
6 is a Shuttle within range of the Quasar.
3 and 4 are TIE Fighter and 5 is a Shuttle, all are in range 1-3 to the Shuttle 6.
1 and 2 are TIE Fighter that are out of range of the Shuttle 6.

5ad4aaa196f1e_RelaisQuestion.thumb.jpg.e035518c24a3d7545f79f79455c2b155.jpg

 

Now the question: What can the Quasar activate:

If you follow RAW he could activate 5 Squadrons, including the shuttle 6.
- Shuttle 5 is in range to be activated, means he can use the relais.
- Shuttle 6 is in range to be activated, means he can use the relais.
- Relais 2 + Relais 2 means the Quasar can actiavte 4 Squadrons via relais and the last shuttle 6 directly.
- The TIE Fighter 1 and 2 have to be activated by the Shuttle 5.
- The Shuttle 6 can activate the TIE Fighters 3 and 4 or one of these TIE Fighters and the Shuttle 5.

I don't think the rule change was intended to be this way, but this is how i would understand the rule for th relay right now.
If anyone has any other idea or suggestion how to interpret the rules, let us know :)

 

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That shuttle shuffle example would make yavaris with 3 vcx very dangerous again. But for 15 points extra compared to before, and not too far away from the fight. Could be well balanced.

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3 hours ago, Tokra said:

If anyone has any other idea or suggestion how to interpret the rules, let us know :)

 

Activation range is, always, close-medium range.

+

Boosted Coms FAQ entry: this card should read: when resolving a squadron command your activation range is close-long range instead of close-medium range 

Centicore FAQ entry: I don't care.

 

But that requires an errata and probably a FAQ clarification about squadrons commands and something called "activation range"

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Sorry to dig up an old thread but I thought it best to raise this here rather than start a new thread.

From the conversation above is the general consensus then that:

* You can do a 'relay chain' - i.e. activate ships through multiple relays - provided that in each activation not more than 2/1 commands are passed through a single Lambda/VCX?

Modifying @Tokra's illustration above, if we assume that only shuttle 6 is in range of the Quasar (let's say no Boosted Comms) then the player could either:

1) Pass two activations on to the other Shuttle to then activate TIEs 1 and 2

or 

2) Activate TIE 3 or 4 and then pass one activation on to the other Shuttle so that it can activate TIE 1 or 2. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Zamalekite said:

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I thought it best to raise this here rather than start a new thread.

From the conversation above is the general consensus then that:

* You can do a 'relay chain' - i.e. activate ships through multiple relays - provided that in each activation not more than 2/1 commands are passed through a single Lambda/VCX?

Modifying @Tokra's illustration above, if we assume that only shuttle 6 is in range of the Quasar (let's say no Boosted Comms) then the player could either:

1) Pass two activations on to the other Shuttle to then activate TIEs 1 and 2

or 

2) Activate TIE 3 or 4 and then pass one activation on to the other Shuttle so that it can activate TIE 1 or 2. 

 

Check the answered questions pinned post.

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