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Snowtroopers - Targeting Scopes Auto-Include?

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If Snowtroopers are 40 they replace naked Stormtrooper units.  If they are 48 they're pretty much just garbage.  The E-11 is terribly ineffective on any board with an reasonable amount of terrain and mostly exists to put suppression tokens on things.  The DLT is very much what makes Stormtroopers worth taking and there's really no way the Stormtrooper flamethrower ends up being worth taking over Concussion Grenades, IMO.

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21 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

If Snowtroopers are 40 they replace naked Stormtrooper units.  If they are 48 they're pretty much just garbage.  The E-11 is terribly ineffective on any board with an reasonable amount of terrain and mostly exists to put suppression tokens on things.  The DLT is very much what makes Stormtroopers worth taking and there's really no way the Stormtrooper flamethrower ends up being worth taking over Concussion Grenades, IMO.

Like I said earlier, I don't think this will be the case. Snowtroopers lack consistent damage and their movement 1 restricts them in objective modes. I do think that naked Snowtroopers will replace naked Stormtroopers though.

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54 minutes ago, jbiondo said:

Like I said earlier, I don't think this will be the case. Snowtroopers lack consistent damage and their movement 1 restricts them in objective modes. I do think that naked Snowtroopers will replace naked Stormtroopers though.

Like said earlier : Snowtroopers may lack the cosistent damage, but they can move move shoot, move shot doge, aim move shoot, which is better that anything stormtroopers can do except move + move (even if snow can move + move + shoot, which is still better).

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8 minutes ago, RaevenKS said:

Like said earlier : Snowtroopers may lack the cosistent damage, but they can move move shoot, move shot doge, aim move shoot, which is better that anything stormtroopers can do except move + move (even if snow can move + move + shoot, which is still better).

Snow troopers gain about 0.5-1"  of movement in exchange for cheaper models and 2 less damage. I wouldn't straight up call it an advantage. In fact, I think it's a disadvantage because 2 less damage is basically 50% less total output. 

Your other two points (move + dodge + shoot / move + aim + shoot) are valid, but a wise opponent can easily play around it (stated in my previous example). 

Like fleet troopers, snowtroopers will have a role in your army, but I don't believe they will be the "go-to". Play some games with them and you will come to the same conclusion.

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The fact is that I think we do not play on the same kind of board. I do play often on something with huge Los blockers, that only range 4 on big models can shoot from afar. It's not rare that most of my encounter are just playing on a range 2 shoots phases. 

For what I saw until now, players just play on regular 40k setup board (for a completely different kind of game) and then lose 50% of the fun. 

 

On the boards I play, even for 48pts, snow will be goto. Really. 

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6 hours ago, RaevenKS said:

The fact is that I think we do not play on the same kind of board. I do play often on something with huge Los blockers, that only range 4 on big models can shoot from afar. It's not rare that most of my encounter are just playing on a range 2 shoots phases. 

For what I saw until now, players just play on regular 40k setup board (for a completely different kind of game) and then lose 50% of the fun. 

 

On the boards I play, even for 48pts, snow will be goto. Really. 

Even if they "could" get into range, they still do 50% less damage than regular troopers with DLT... This is just a fact. My board has a lot of terrain. We try to balance it such that all ranges have their strengths and weaknesses. It seems like Fleet Troopers would slaughter on your board. Their only weakness is range 12"..

6 hours ago, LunarSol said:

Spd 1+Spd 1+Rng 3 is 2" more than Spd 2+Rng 3 fwiw.

My mistake, I don't have the Spd ruler with me to measure. I was approximating based on memory.

Edit: I did the measurement. It's 1" extra NOT 2". 

Edited by jbiondo

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7 hours ago, jbiondo said:

Even if they "could" get into range, they still do 50% less damage than regular troopers with DLT... This is just a fact. My board has a lot of terrain. We try to balance it such that all ranges have their strengths and weaknesses. It seems like Fleet Troopers would slaughter on your board. Their only weakness is range 12"..

My mistake, I don't have the Spd ruler with me to measure. I was approximating based on memory.

Edit: I did the measurement. It's 1" extra NOT 2". 

They don't do less than 50% depending on the flamethrower if you are oftenly shooting at range 2.

Moreover, it's not 1", it's 2".

Speed 1 = 3" + base = 1" + speed 1 = 3" + base = 1"  == 8"
Speed 2 = 5" + base = 1" == 6"

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On 4/6/2018 at 11:56 PM, Darth evil said:

my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

My desert planet Imperials will be calling them hazardous environment troopers. Their heavy protective gear used during ops where sandstorm are possible or in the areas where there are adverse climate hazards like potentailly deadly to inhale gas pockets or dangerous fauna.

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2 hours ago, RaevenKS said:

So...

48pts.

I still feel they're worth it. Not as your only option to bring for troops of course, but as a compliment. Much as how no one is going to want to take only fleet troopers.

 

I'm planning on running 2 full sized squads to move up with Vader to take the centerfield objectives. Or with an environmental gear veers. Everyone seems to be missing his spotter 2 ability, and with the flamethrower, access to grenades, and the steady keyword, I see these guys as amazing close combat specialists.

 

Targeting scopes aren't necessary, but if you're running up the field with veers, why not reroll that extra die? You still convert surges to hits.

Edited by Mr. Ghoti
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Depends on plan / use:

 

Stand and shoot - stormies are better 

Running in the open - stormies are better

Going through terrain, and shoot and hide shenanigans (move shoot move) - Snowies are better.

 

In all I think Snowtroopers are better in heavy terrain, else stormtroopers are better. I will likely have 4 DLT stormtroopers and 2 snowtroopers until more “trooper” options become available (ie Imperial special forces)

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:27 PM, jbiondo said:

Their are several problems with Snowtroopers special weapons.

1) 12" Range with only movement 1. This isn't a huge deal, but it's definitely important to note. Getting into range will be difficult, but not impossible. 

2) Both weapons are awkward choices. The Ion weapon has been spoiled and it is the most unimpressive special weapon so far. 2 White Dice + 1 Black Die, 12" range, Impact 1, Ion 1, and it exhausts for 34 points... Compare it to what the Rebels have 2 Red Dice, 18" range, Impact 1, Ion 1, and it exhausts for 32 points... The other special weapon option hasn't been revealed yet, but we do know that it is a Flamethrower variant. Using the AT-RT Flamethrower for comparison, I assume it will be 1 Black Die per model in the defending squad, but will only have 6" range. I can't imagine that a handheld flamethrower will have further range than one on a mounted vehicle. We will have to wait and see the stats on the flamethrower before I'm confident on my assessment, but right now I'm doubtful.

From what I've seen proxying Snowtroopers, I'm never in range after my first movement with this unit. Either my opponent has cleverly positioned his squads out of range (forcing me to double move), or the target was already in range and shot my snowtroopers, thus giving them a suppression token. I first range all Snowtroopers and missed my DLT's. I then went down to 4-2 and felt the DPS was lacking. Now, I run 2-4 and the list is better, but I'm skeptical. 

Once you play with them you will  miss the consistent damage/suppression from the DLT. You will also miss movement 2 from stormtroopers (very helpful for capturing objectives and advancing).

1) not really since you can move and shoot, so move 1x2 + shoot is quite good actually.
2) The biggest issue of the snowtrooper ion is that there are much lower chances of hitting with the squad's white dice overall to apply the ion, not the range per se. Also, in the price, you count the mini (trooper) itself which is 12 compared to the rebel 10, so the snowtrooper Ion is actually cheaper, and works with a better synergy, since you can actually activate, recover, then move+shoot, unlike the rebs that can only recover and shoot.
 

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